Expert Hebrew help (emph. expert). On Isaiah 53

Discussion in 'Languages' started by NaphtaliPress, Oct 30, 2016.

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  1. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    I would like to find the following passage in English in the Hebrew commentary noted. The original has no page numbers, no Latin, purely all Hebrew. So I'm lost totally. I can count the pages if anyone can read to get to Isaiah 53 and find the passage in question.
    Rabbi Isaac ben Judah Abravanel/Abarbanel (1437–1508) comments on Isaiah 53 and the comment of Rabbi Saadia Gaon (882–942).
    As to the opinion of the Ga'on, who supposes the prophecy to allude to Jeremiah, I cannot in truth see a single verse which really points to him. How is it possible to explain of Jeremiah the verse, “He shall be high and exalted, and lofty exceedingly,” or, “Kings will shut their mouths at him ? — for at the time when he lived the appearance of a prophet was nothing unusual. Or how could it be said of him, that he “bare our sicknesses,” or that “by his stripes we were healed,” or that the iniquity of us all was “laid upon him,” as though he suffered the entire penalty, and Israel escaped free? Nor do we read in his history anything of his being stricken “for the transgression of my people,” or of his “making his grave with the wicked,” still less of his “seeing seed,” and having long life, or “dividing spoil with the mighty:” not a word of all this can be substantiated from the history. I indeed wonder greatly who can have led the Ga'on into this opinion, and am surprised both at him and at the scholars who applaud his exposition. We conclude, then, that all these methods of interpretation are alien to the subject, and have no basis or support in the words of Scripture.
    The Hebrew commentary, published in 1642 is here.
    Abarbanel wrote his commentary on Isaiah in 1498, and several editions of his commentaries were published in the 17th century.
    Any help is much appreciated. Nothing essential if this fails but it would be cool to cite from the original hebrew (some version at least). There may be a modern edition but I haven't been able to clearly identify one or if it is just a reprint of an earlier one.
     
  2. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    Chris, it looks like the book and chapter are identified at the top of each page. The Isaiah 53 heading looks like this:

    ישעיה נג

    The pages seem to be numbered only on one side. The section labeled Isaiah 53 seems to run across the recto and verso of pages עח up to פא.
    (That's 78-81 - 81 is the first page labeled as 54, so the portion for 53 runs at least 78-80, front and back). The page before the 53 section starts has a 2 20 at the bottom, and page 81, which is the first labeled as 54 has a 1 21 at the bottom. That's so early in the book because the volume includes Jeremiah and the other prophets.

    That's about as much as I can tell without eyestrain, but the section cited has block quotes of Isaiah 53, divided into two sections (vv.1-9; vv.10-12), so it's definitely the right place to look.
     
  3. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks for getting to the pages Ruben! Latin I'd have a chance even Greek, but my eyes don't make sense of the letters. i suppose look for Gaon in Hebrew whatever that is? Maybe easier to go by the mentioning of Jeremiah. At least not a large section.
     
  4. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    The search function on Jeremiah only pulled up the headings from that part of the commentary, so I'm not sure it extends to the actual text.
     
  5. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    It could start earlier in 52?
     
  6. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    I don't think so - it seems like the previous section might run on after the header has changed, rather than vice versa.
     
  7. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    I'm pretty sure it is on p. 166 of the pdf you referenced, Chris.

    Here is a screen shot of Gaon's comment on Jeremiah:

    COMMENTARIUS_celeberrimi_RABBI_ISHAK_ABA.jpg
     
  8. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Vic! Ruben do you concur? Can you give me the hebrew page number in the font used previously?
     
  9. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Here is a little bit bigger screen shot from the google book page.

    comment2.jpg
     
  10. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    And the highlighted part is the Gaon?
     
  11. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    I make it to be page 78: חע
     
  12. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    It has the word Jeremiah and Gaon in that highlighted part. It would take me longer to translate the sentence given the medievalish Hebrew.
     
  13. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

  14. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Oops, those Hebrew letters should be reversed, but the editor keeps switching them.


    I've got to run, just found out my office is flooding.
     
  15. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Vic; that doesn't sound good.
     
  16. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    I don't know Chris. With the size of the lettering in the commentary section and the amount of bleed-through on the scan, I'm not at all certain of anything smaller than the headings and inset Scripture quotes. 2 pages below the portion Vic highlighted there is an inset quote from the end of Isaiah 52:13-15, and some of the phrases cited in the original reference you provided are from there, so it does seem likely that you might not get the comment if you just cited the page range that's labeled Isaiah 53.
     
  17. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Okay; thank Ruben. If no other chime ins give clarity I can drop an ff.
     
  18. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Re the office: a water pipe broke. We've gotten the water shut off, but it's a mess.

    I agree with Ruben--Is 52:13-15 follows what I cited. Fatigue and excitement helped me jump the gun. The p. 166 reference refers to Jeremiah in the context of gentiles, not Gaon.... Oops. again.

    I also found Jeremiah's name at the top of page 173 of the pdf. As Ruben notes, he comes up most in the commentary on Jeremiah later and it is hard to search for the name in the smaller text. Searching for "ירמ" shortened and without points yielded more results (over 300).

    The medieval text is hard to make out. Some of the letters are different. Vocabulary and spellings differ too. I'd like to keep digging, but I probably will be occupied with water cleanup until this afternoon.,
     
  19. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    No rush; this is not burning a hole in my pocket. :) Does the comment on chp 53 end on the p. 173? That is the page after the one Ruben noted had 1 21 on the bottom. I could simply do a page range. Sorry to hear of the flood.
     
  20. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    A search for Gaon - גאון - found 15 results, none in the body of the commentary. I don't think Google has any greater success reading this form of script than I do!

    Sorry to hear about your office, Vic - that sounds very distressing.
     
  21. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Office is not bad. Lots of water on the floor and carpet, but all my files and equipment are up above the water level. Things press on and the carpet slurper is on his way.


    Here is my stab at a summary of the relevant part of the commentary:

    pdf page 168 near bottom of page, there is a block quote of Isaiah 52:13-13, beginning commentary on the "servant." Hebrew page number 79 ( עט )

    pdf page 169. block quote Isaiah 53: 1-9 No Hebrew page number.

    pdf 170 has Hebrew page number 80 ( פ )

    pdf 171 has Isaiah 53:10-12 No Hebrew page number.

    pdf 172 has Hebrew page number 81 ( פא )

    pdf 173: Commentary on Isaiah 53 ends at top third of page.

    I found help in a web reference to Rashi-Style Hebrew that helps figure out the different letters. Alef and Shin are different enough that I was getting confused about many words. I'll see if I can find Gaon's opinion somewhere in those pages.
     
  22. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks very much Vic.:up:
     
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