Yeah I agree. Whatever we mean by infinite in math is not the same as infinite when apllied to God, qualitative differences. There are different infinities in math.

Yeah I agree. Whatever we mean by infinite in math is not the same as infinite when apllied to God, qualitative differences. There are different infinities in math.

Sure. We were discussing more the idea of an infinite duration. And if you apply that to days, that means we would have had to have an infinite number of days before we get to today, which means we would have never gotten to today.

God being above and outside of creation's infinite time and space is incomprehensible. I think it always will be. I think it is part of the majesty he will always have in Himself alone as we and his creation will always be tied to time and space.

God being above and outside of creation's infinite time and space is incomprehensible. I think it always will be. I think it is part of the majesty he will always have in Himself alone as we and his creation will always be tied to time and space.

I prefer to look at as different kinds of infinity. I brought it up because although I believe that the first cause argument is true intuitionially but I am skeptical over simplistic versions because of the work on infinities in math by Cantor show the concept is not so simple. But all the complexity of infinity that we come across on a created level is in sum total a completely different kind of "infinity" than whatever is meant by when we apply it to God.

Sure. We were discussing more the idea of an infinite duration. And if you apply that to days, that means we would have had to have an infinite number of days before we get to today, which means we would have never gotten to today.

Just an example of what I'm talking about infinite duration and different kinds of infinity. Now I completely agree with your point Jacob but I noticed a paradox. The terminator paradox (which I just made up but am pretty sure there's some concept out there) John Conner sends Kyle Reese back in time to save his mother. Kyle Reese becomes John's father only for John to grow up fight the machines (don't be skeptical SIRI 2.0 might be Skynet, I don't trust those things) train Kyle and send him back to be his father. And over and over and over again on into infinity, an infinite loop but the same finite number of days of John Conner being fathered by Kyle only to live let's say 30 years to send Kyle back. That finite 30 years hasn't changed and yet there's an infinite temporal loop. You see complex.

Just an example of what I'm talking about infinite duration and different kinds of infinity. Now I completely agree with your point Jacob but I noticed a paradox. The terminator paradox (which I just made up but am pretty sure there's some concept out there) John Conner sends Kyle Reese back in time to save his mother. Kyle Reese becomes John's father only for John to grow up fight the machines (don't be skeptical SIRI 2.0 might be Skynet, I don't trust those things) train Kyle and send him back to be his father. And over and over and over again on into infinity, an infinite loop but the same finite number of days of John Conner being fathered by Kyle only to live let's say 30 years to send Kyle back. That finite 30 years hasn't changed and yet there's an infinite temporal loop. You see complex.