Evils of Drama?

[tdowns]

Can somebody, the poster perhaps, clarify this:

"My wife and I, not all that long ago, came to the realization of the evils of drama.

Now we can teach our children about the evils of it, and we can forbid them to view drama. But, just as we learned, in process of time, in our hearts, we have to also give our children the time that it took ourselves to finally come to the realization. And in the meantime pray God for His grace in this matter."

Do you mean in service, or in general, like movies?

 

[AV1611]

SermonAudio.com - Should Christians watch Movies

 

[Blueridge Believer]

The Christian and the Theater


Look at what they wrote about actors in the 1820's:




Accordingly, in all ages and countries, play-actors have been generally found triflers, buffoons, sensualists, unfit for sober employment, and loose in their morals. It is not pretended that there have been no exceptions to this character. But the exceptions have been so few, and their circumstances so extraordinary, as to confirm, rather than invalidate the general argument. And is it even true, that there ever has been a complete exception? Was there ever an actor who exhibited a life of steady, exemplary, Christian purity and piety? I never heard of such a person; and until I do, I shall venture to say there never was one. Yet this is the profession which all who frequent the theater contribute their share, to encourage and support. They give their presence, their influence, and their money—for the maintenance of a class of people whose business it is—directly or indirectly, to instill error and sin, to corrupt our children, and to counteract whatever the friends of piety and good morals are striving to accomplish for the benefit of society.

 

[Pergamum]

I have had a lot of gay haircutters at salons or beauty salons. You don't see me posting a thread on the evils of haircuts.

 

[Augusta]

I have had a lot of gay haircutters at salons or beauty salons. You don't see me posting a thread on the evils of haircuts.

Pergy, it's not just the immorality of the actors. That is just one very small aspect In my humble opinion. It is the sickening images, profanity, blasphemy, senuality, and every type of vice that is paraded before your eyes with these activities. It is the time that is sunk into these types of leisure activities. It is the money sunk into them. (finger pointed at myself while listing these)

Can that time and brain space be redeemed?? Since stopping much of those activities, (this has been a long process, I am down to only a very few Austen type movies, I still really like movies) I am haunted now occasionally by images of things from movies and I pray the Lord would wipe them from memory. I have sifted through my movies twice now and am about to do a 3rd sweep. Each time I was getting rid of them based on content, and each time I was more and more sensitive to that content.

You become calloused to the sin paraded before you. As you get rid of it and leave only your daily work and reading in the Word of God you become less and less calloused to it and you cannot stand it to be in your sight. I think this is the way it should be.

What communion hath light with darkness?

You tell me Pergy, can you view the things bolded below and not be a partaker in them? If the principle that Christ set forth that if you just look a woman with lust that you have commited adultery, or if you hate someone you are a murderer, if that holds true, how on earth can we pay with our kingdom resources to sit in front of the filth that we sit in front of when we watch even a tv commercial?? How can we not be partaking of it?

We are ingesting it with our minds and our hearts and emotions that are toyed with by the content in the movie to move us to love, hate, jealousy, and every type of emotion with the characters of the movie. Even if it isn't real we still love, hate, and have jealousy in our hearts and minds. You still lust an object before your eyes which is the very definition of idolatry.

I think we lie to ourselves and suppress the truth if say we can sit through that and not be touched.

Ephesians 5
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)

10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

 

[etexas]

I have had a lot of gay haircutters at salons or beauty salons. You don't see me posting a thread on the evils of haircuts.

Pergi! Man! That was TOO funny! (sorry guys back on topic.)

 

[Amazing Grace]

Id like to know where I can get a copy of the list of sins of this 'magnitude'. Sometimes when I see posts regarding a subject and opinion like this, my walk becomes impossible. I may as well become an old school Amish. Reminds me of reading the mishna with my jewish friend. Do not covet is enough for me. I do not need 87 things listed from what every man in the world describes as coveting. Bunch of peccadillos is all it is if that. Dramas, plays, movies, drinking, card playing, dancing, pictures, and screennames and first names breaking the 3rd commandment. I love acting as a profession, I love plays, And Just as I am "smart enough"(notice the quotes signifying one does not have to be that smart), to realize that Christ is not made out of wood when He says He is the door, I can somehow muster up enough brains to watch a drama and know Anthony Hopkins is not a cannibalistic serial killer. My goodness, why did Christ go to the cross?

 

[Davidius]

Would this preclude the reading of books as well?

 

[Amazing Grace]

Would this preclude the reading of books as well?

I am sure this made someones list David somewhere.

 

[Davidius]

Would this preclude the reading of books as well?

I am sure this made someones list David somewhere.

It seems like that would follow logically. Well, I'm off to the monastery.

 

[AV1611]

Would this preclude the reading of books as well?

It would depend upon what you are reading and why you are reading it. Reading a novel in which a volent rape is described in minute detail is not something a Christian should be reading.

Question 139: What are the sins forbidden in the seventh commandment?
Answer: The sins forbidden in the seventh commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, adultery, fornication, rape, incest, sodomy, and all unnatural lusts; all unclean imaginations, thoughts, purposes, and affections; all corrupt or filthy communications, or listening thereunto; wanton looks, impudent or light behavior, immodest apparel; prohibiting of lawful, and dispensing with unlawful marriages; allowing, tolerating, keeping of stews, and resorting to them; entangling vows of single life, undue delay of marriage; having more wives or husbands than one at the same time; unjust divorce, or desertion; idleness, gluttony, drunkenness, unchaste company; lascivious songs, books, pictures, dancings, stage plays; and all other provocations to, or acts of uncleanness, either in ourselves or others.

 

[Coram Deo]

I hope it is a "Reformed" Monastery...

Well, I'm off to the monastery.

 

[Davidius]

Would this preclude the reading of books as well?

It would depend upon what you are reading and why you are reading it. Reading a novel in which a volent rape is described in minute detail is not something a Christian should be reading.

Question 139: What are the sins forbidden in the seventh commandment?
Answer: The sins forbidden in the seventh commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, adultery, fornication, rape, incest, sodomy, and all unnatural lusts; all unclean imaginations, thoughts, purposes, and affections; all corrupt or filthy communications, or listening thereunto; wanton looks, impudent or light behavior, immodest apparel; prohibiting of lawful, and dispensing with unlawful marriages; allowing, tolerating, keeping of stews, and resorting to them; entangling vows of single life, undue delay of marriage; having more wives or husbands than one at the same time; unjust divorce, or desertion; idleness, gluttony, drunkenness, unchaste company; lascivious songs, books, pictures, dancings, stage plays; and all other provocations to, or acts of uncleanness, either in ourselves or others.

I don't think that anyone here would argue for the legitimacy of p0rnography. The thread implies that watching any movie is a sin, and I just wanted to ask a legitimate follow-up question. If the issue is not so black and white that all movies and books are sinful, then there must be some kind of subjective line, and at that point we are crossing into the murky waters of individual conscience.

 

[Coram Deo]

lascivious is the key word for the catechism.....

Whether the lascivious is Visual, Audio, Physical, or mental imagery....

Would this preclude the reading of books as well?

It would depend upon what you are reading and why you are reading it. Reading a novel in which a volent rape is described in minute detail is not something a Christian should be reading.

Question 139: What are the sins forbidden in the seventh commandment?
Answer: The sins forbidden in the seventh commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, adultery, fornication, rape, incest, sodomy, and all unnatural lusts; all unclean imaginations, thoughts, purposes, and affections; all corrupt or filthy communications, or listening thereunto; wanton looks, impudent or light behavior, immodest apparel; prohibiting of lawful, and dispensing with unlawful marriages; allowing, tolerating, keeping of stews, and resorting to them; entangling vows of single life, undue delay of marriage; having more wives or husbands than one at the same time; unjust divorce, or desertion; idleness, gluttony, drunkenness, unchaste company; lascivious songs, books, pictures, dancings, stage plays; and all other provocations to, or acts of uncleanness, either in ourselves or others.

I don't think that anyone here would argue for the legitimacy of p0rnography. The thread implies that watching any movie is a sin, and I just wanted to ask a legitimate follow-up question. If the issue is not so black and white that all movies and books are sinful, then there must be some kind of subjective line, and at that point we are crossing into the murky waters of individual conscience.

 

[LadyFlynt]

There goes half my history books...particularly the ones on Henry VIII.

(I'm being fasticious. I do believe there is a line...where exactly is difficult to place)

 

[AV1611]

The thread implies that watching any movie is a sin, and I just wanted to ask a legitimate follow-up question. If the issue is not so black and white that all movies and books are sinful, then there must be some kind of subjective line, and at that point we are crossing into the murky waters of individual conscience.

Not really as the Bible provides us with a number of simple rules:

Psa 101:3 "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me."

Rom 16:19 "yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil."

1Co 15:33 "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."

Php 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Does it meet this test?

 

[Coram Deo]

Really! Are you sure?

p0rnography does not just exist as images... p0rnography exist on the dance floor when people mimic lustful acts when dancing in the modern styles... p0rnography exist in Audio with Music that makes those either on the floor listening or those singing the songs mimic sexual acts and have lustful thoughts... Certain beats of the music can be very lustful.... p0rnography exist in books that describe in words sexual acts, i.e. Romance Novels, or even Crime Investigations when describing in details a rape case.. p0rnography exist in clothing catalogs when showing swim wear or underwear ads... p0rnography exist in movies from all of the above categories.....

I am not against clean decent movies... But p0rnography exist on many levels and 9 times out of 10 it exist in most movies from the music, to the acts displayed.. I have seen many christian try to defend certain music, movies, dances, books, etc.. And when they do that they are defending a form of p0rnography....

I don't think that anyone here would argue for the legitimacy of p0rnography.

 

[Augusta]

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

 

[Davidius]

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

Again, no one is arguing that p0rnography is acceptable. The title of this thread is not "The Evils of p0rnography," rather "The Evils of Drama." You don't need to keep posting verses about lasciviousness. What I'm asking someone to defend is the thesis set out in the OP, which implies that all movies and all books are sinful, regardless of their content.

***
To Michael:

Yes, I am sure that no one here is suggesting that pornographic media, dirty rap dancing, and romance novels are acceptable. We'll have to agree to disagree about the "sensuality" of music with the beat on 2 and 4.

 

[Gryphonette]

Are you referring to "Murder on the Orient Express" for example?

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

Or one of Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe books?

There's no doubt but that you're right about the necessity of being careful what we let into our minds through books, films, television, etc., as once it's in there it's almost impossible to eradicate.

I've more than a few things I read or saw that I'd love to delete permanently from my memory banks.

But I'm not certain Scripture calls for us to avoid all forms of fiction, especially as some of the descriptions in non-fiction works are every bit as horrid as anything Stephen King ever dreamed up.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Demonize movies in general all you want... but stay away from Braveheart!!!

 

[etexas]

Demonize movies in general all you want... but stay away from Braveheart!!!

And The Good, the Bad and the Ugly!

 

[Coram Deo]

That is a sad one.... I love braveheart but did they have to put lustfulness into the movie.......

Demonize movies in general all you want... but stay away from Braveheart!!!

 

[Davidius]

That is a sad one.... I love braveheart but did they have to put lustfulness into the movie.......

Demonize movies in general all you want... but stay away from Braveheart!!!

No kidding. There are some movies that are so good and one can hardly figure out why the producers decided that there just had to be an indecent scene or two.

 

[Amazing Grace]

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

Traci:

The principle is that Christ wants one to realize that only In HIM can one be cleansed. Even our purest thoughts have to be cleansed Traci. As David said, Do not hear what i am not saying. I am not saying pronography is good medicine for the soul and marraige. This thread is about drama. These novel ideas of what is sinful honestly would make me want to be monastic or old school amish. Yet we know how false that is. If this is what the bible teaches, I would be better off blind, deaf and dumb, in a wheelchair so I couldnt dance. How sad it is to be under so much bondage.

 

[Augusta]

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

Again, no one is arguing that p0rnography is acceptable. The title of this thread is not "The Evils of p0rnography," rather "The Evils of Drama." You don't need to keep posting verses about lasciviousness. What I'm asking someone to defend is the thesis set out in the OP, which implies that all movies and all books are sinful, regardless of their content.

***
To Michael:

Yes, I am sure that no one here is suggesting that pornographic media, dirty rap dancing, and romance novels are acceptable. We'll have to agree to disagree about the "sensuality" of music with the beat on 2 and 4.

David, you are trying to pigeon-hole this into just standing for p0rnography but it covers more ground than that. The verse says ALL that is in the world. There are more things lusted after than naked women. People lust for power, for money, for worldy possessions.

Portrayed in you average tv show are all sorts of these things. Forget about sex entirely and lets focus on the murder and violence in movies and tv.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 28:17
A man that doeth violence to the blood of any person shall flee to the pit; let no man stay him.

Proverbs 10:11
The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Luke 3:14
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

My point really is not that the medium of drama is per se wicked. It is all about content. I still really like Austen and Dickens type films. I have struggled with whether to get rid of my Pride and Prejudice because Lydia takes the Lords name in vain many times in it. Should I just overlook the the 3rd commandment for my own enjoyment of this movie??

 

[Davidius]

David, you are trying to pigeon-hole this into just standing for p0rnography but it covers more ground than that. The verse says ALL that is in the world. There are more things lusted after than naked women. People lust for power, for money, for worldy possessions.

Portrayed in you average tv show are all sorts of these things. Forget about sex entirely and lets focus on the murder and violence in movies and tv.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 28:17
A man that doeth violence to the blood of any person shall flee to the pit; let no man stay him.

Proverbs 10:11
The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Luke 3:14
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

My point really is not that the medium of drama is per se wicked. It is all about content. I still really like Austen and Dickens type films. I have struggled with whether to get rid of my Pride and Prejudice because Lydia takes the Lords name in vain many times in it. Should I just overlook the the 3rd commandment for my own enjoyment of this movie??

I'm not trying to pigeon-hole anything. The main point is that you've been talking about content and I've been talking about medium. According to the above sentence which I have bolded, however, it seems that we have no real disagreement. Whether or not you should throw away Pride and Prejudice is another discussion, at least according to the thesis of the OP.

 

[Augusta]

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

Traci:

The principle is that Christ wants one to realize that only In HIM can one be cleansed. Even our purest thoughts have to be cleansed Traci. As David said, Do not hear what i am not saying. I am not saying pronography is good medicine for the soul and marraige. This thread is about drama. These novel ideas of what is sinful honestly would make me want to be monastic or old school amish. Yet we know how false that is. If this is what the bible teaches, I would be better off blind, deaf and dumb, in a wheelchair so I couldnt dance. How sad it is to be under so much bondage.

Robert, I can only say with Paul:

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


The bondage is sin and the committing of sin. That is what we are free from. We are free to serve God and all that that entails. We do indeed have to guard our eyes and our ears. Being the temple of the Lord has much less to do with the body and more to do with my mind and soul In my humble opinion.

If I, for entertainment, watch all kinds of sinful acts paraded before my eyes. How on earth can that be pleasing to him?? How can that be me living no longer in sin or not being a partaker in the sins of the world?

Romans 1:32

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Amazing Grace]

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

Again, no one is arguing that p0rnography is acceptable. The title of this thread is not "The Evils of p0rnography," rather "The Evils of Drama." You don't need to keep posting verses about lasciviousness. What I'm asking someone to defend is the thesis set out in the OP, which implies that all movies and all books are sinful, regardless of their content.

***
To Michael:

Yes, I am sure that no one here is suggesting that pornographic media, dirty rap dancing, and romance novels are acceptable. We'll have to agree to disagree about the "sensuality" of music with the beat on 2 and 4.

David, you are trying to pigeon-hole this into just standing for p0rnography but it covers more ground than that. The verse says ALL that is in the world. There are more things lusted after than naked women. People lust for power, for money, for worldy possessions.

Portrayed in you average tv show are all sorts of these things. Forget about sex entirely and lets focus on the murder and violence in movies and tv.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 28:17
A man that doeth violence to the blood of any person shall flee to the pit; let no man stay him.

Proverbs 10:11
The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Luke 3:14
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

My point really is not that the medium of drama is per se wicked. It is all about content. I still really like Austen and Dickens type films. I have struggled with whether to get rid of my Pride and Prejudice because Lydia takes the Lords name in vain many times in it. Should I just overlook the the 3rd commandment for my own enjoyment of this movie??

traci:

I must ask, is this regenerated life hard to live as you do worrying about every glance, or word, or program you watch? Seriously, this is sanctification without Christ. This is striving for some aesthetic holiness this side of the grave. An impossibility that only leads to dispair. The little engine that could, 'i think i can i think i can i think i can. This is not was were are called for.

 

[Davidius]

David and Robert, can you answer my question about the principle that Christ set forth when he said if you look with lust, or hate in your heart, you have committed adultery and murder?? If that is true how can we put those things in our minds and hearts via books or movies??

What are the bolded things in this passage if they are not the sins and fleshly things in movies and books or where ever they are found "in the world??"

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..

Traci:

The principle is that Christ wants one to realize that only In HIM can one be cleansed. Even our purest thoughts have to be cleansed Traci. As David said, Do not hear what i am not saying. I am not saying pronography is good medicine for the soul and marraige. This thread is about drama. These novel ideas of what is sinful honestly would make me want to be monastic or old school amish. Yet we know how false that is. If this is what the bible teaches, I would be better off blind, deaf and dumb, in a wheelchair so I couldnt dance. How sad it is to be under so much bondage.

Robert, I can only say with Paul:

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


The bondage is sin and the committing of sin. That is what we are free from. We are free to serve God and all that that entails. We do indeed have to guard our eyes and our ears. Being the temple of the Lord has much less to do with the body and more to do with my mind and soul In my humble opinion.

If I, for entertainment, watch all kinds of sinful acts paraded before my eyes. How on earth can that be pleasing to him?? How can that be me living no longer in sin or not being a partaker in the sins of the world?

Romans 1:32

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Again, neither he nor I are talking about "all kinds of sinful acts paraded before our eyes." Using this kind of exaggerated language is a straw man and makes our position look ridiculous by imputing a different meaning than the one we have. If we were really arguing that everyone should have all kinds of sinful acts paraded before their eyes, you would have much cause to reprimand us. But I assume you have read my previous post by now and hence hope that this point is unnecessary.

By the way, the apostle Paul to whom you refer is the one who quoted the Hellenistic poet Aratus in his address to the Athenians in Acts.