EPs: The Lord's Prayer in corporate worship?

[Mr. Bultitude]

I'd like to know what y'all think. For those who hold to Exclusive Psalmody, I know that many (most?) of you also believe that reciting creeds is impermissible, while believing that the preacher is free to pray the Lord's Prayer and to quote from creeds during his sermon. But what about reciting together as a congregation?

The question of creeds has often been discussed here, but I'm not sure about the Lord's Prayer, hence why I'm trying to focus on the Lord's Prayer in this thread, but I thought the framing of the poll question might invite some clarity as well.

 

[Romans922]

I'm EP and I can't answer your poll as there is not an option of being EP and that neither the Lord's prayer nor creeds be recited in public worship.

As well you are asking a question based on the normative (Lutheran) principle of worship not the regulative (biblical & reformed) principle of worship. The question is not what is permissible, but what is commanded. EP is commanded. Reciting the Lord's prayer and reciting creeds/confessions/catechisms is not commanded.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

I'd like to know what y'all think. For those who hold to Exclusive Psalmody, I know that many (most?) of you also believe that reciting creeds is impermissible, while believing that the preacher is free to pray the Lord's Prayer and to quote from creeds during his sermon. But what about reciting together as a congregation?

The question of creeds has often been discussed here, but I'm not sure about the Lord's Prayer, hence why I'm trying to focus on the Lord's Prayer in this thread, but I thought the framing of the poll question might invite some clarity as well.

I'm EP. In my previous church which was EP and in my present church which is not, the Lord's Prayer was/is said in unison. The last few months I've concluded after not thinking it was a problem, that it is, and have stopped repeating it. I'm not absolutely convinced it should only be the pastor saying it, but in execution I have found it just is not ideal; far better to ponder the words as much as one can in under a minute given it is said so quickly that I was never in time having to leave out phrases, etc., and thus little time for reflection. Much rather the pastor just said it at this point or use it as a model as is done at great length in the evening service. **edit**. I do not repeat the creeds as I'm not convinced those are prescribed to say in unison during the service.

 

[Mr. Bultitude]

I'm EP and I can't answer your poll as there is not an option of being EP and that neither the Lord's prayer nor creeds be recited in public worship.

Fixed. Can't believe I did that.

As well you are asking a question based on the normative (Lutheran) principle of worship not the regulative (biblical & reformed) principle of worship. The question is not what is permissible, but what is commanded.

Maybe this is a matter of semantics (or maybe not!) but I don't think that's what I'm doing. I realize that the RPW is about whether things are commanded or not, and that nothing not commanded is permissible, but surely at the level of week-to-week liturgical decisions, not everything is mandatory? What I mean is, we are not commanded to sing Psalm 27 specifically, we are commanded to sing Psalms in general. What is permissible in this context is more specific than what is commanded, but what is permissible is (according to the RPW, which I of course I assent to) bounded by what is commanded.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

I added an "other" to the poll and edited my post.

 

[Rom]

I am EP. The Lord has not commanded it to be done in unison, so do not do it.

I have heard that some make a leap of logic: that as it is a corporate prayer "OUR Father..." then we can recite it together. But our understanding of corporate prayer is we pray along with the minister, and the Amen signifies our assent to the prayer (or withholding it if it is not agreeable) thus causing it to be the prayer of the congregation. LC Q. 196 - "And, to testify this our desire and assurance, we say, Amen."

And such thinking, that a prayer can be recited together, opens the door for reciting any other prayer together. For instance, the Lord said of the Lord's Prayer, "After this manner therefore pray ye" (Matthew 6:9). Some then say - well, if we can recite the Lord's Prayer together - well, why stop there? It is a pattern, a model for prayer, and we can recite it together, so we can recite any other prayer together. Therefore, now you find corporate prayers of men recited by a congregation together.

 

[Jake]

Many RPCNA churches I've visited use the prayer in worship, recited together. I'll be at an RP church this coming Lord's Day and I noticed it on the liturgy there as well. I asked an RP pastor once and he pointed to the fact that it dates back at least to the Directory for Public Worship:

"And because the prayer which Christ taught his disciples is not only a pattern of prayer, but itself a most comprehensive prayer, we recommend it also to be used in the prayers of the church"

This is similar to WLC 187:

Q. 187. How is the Lord’s Prayer to be used?
A. The Lord’s Prayer is not only for direction, as a pattern, according to which we are to make other prayers; but may also be used as a prayer, so that it be done with understanding, faith, reverence, and other graces necessary to the right performance of the duty of prayer.

I can see the arguments both ways as to whether being used in the prayers of the church it means the pattern of the minister praying it and the congregation reciting it. I tend toward seeing the prayer as an example, pattern of prayer, but also one which is to be used by the corporate way it is presented in Scripture. I'm not 100% settled on it, being sensitive to @kodos argument above, but this is the argument I've heard from many EP folks.

There seem to be examples of prayer done with many voices at one in Scripture. One isActs 4:24ff ("they lifted their voices together to God"). Another example is Deuteronomy 26:5-9 which may be more of an example of a unified confession than a prayer.

 

[Rom]

"And because the prayer which Christ taught his disciples is not only a pattern of prayer, but itself a most comprehensive prayer, we recommend it also to be used in the prayers of the church"

How does it follow that this is a corporate recitation of the Lord's prayer? That section only speaks of the minister praying. His prayers are the prayers of the church insofar as they are true to the will of God.