EP: Who's Changed?

Discussion in 'A capella Exclusive Psalmody' started by Kaalvenist, Jan 25, 2007.

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  1. Kaalvenist

    Kaalvenist Puritan Board Sophomore

    How many of you who now hold to exclusive psalmody have come to that position by way of the PuritanBoard? That doesn't exclude other influences -- a local EP church, other articles on the Internet, pamphlets or books from Crown & Covenant -- but who here would attribute at least some of the change in their thinking to the PuritanBoard?

    For that matter, who here has been influenced by the PuritanBoard to at least recognize the importance of psalmody, contrasted with hymnody?
     
  2. Jeff_Bartel

    Jeff_Bartel Puritan Board Graduate

    I am a PB EP graduate :graduate:
     
  3. Theoretical

    Theoretical Puritan Board Professor

    I definitely have been moved by the PB into a much more pro-psalmody position, and definitely want to see psalms in my church's services.

    I'm still unsure of full EP, but I do think actual psalms should play a major role in worship.
     
  4. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

    PB EP Grad...Present!
     
  5. Davidius

    Davidius Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    My first exposure to the practice of singing psalms in general, as well as EP, was here at the PB. Through reading discussions here as well as literature provided to me by the local RP church of which I am now a member, I became an EPer myself.
     
  6. Bondman

    Bondman Puritan Board Freshman

    Me too.
     
  7. AV1611

    AV1611 Puritan Board Senior

    This is indeed encouraging.
     
  8. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    EP/PB Grad
     
  9. ChristopherPaul

    ChristopherPaul Puritan Board Senior

    IP/PB grad!

    (which I truly thank God for)

    (I never heard of either position or even the RPW for that matter until I came here)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2007
  10. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    :agree:

    Psalm 115
    1 Not unto us, Lord, not to us,
    but do thou glory take
    Unto thy name, ev'n for thy truth,
    and for thy mercy's sake. :sing:
     
  11. Kaalvenist

    Kaalvenist Puritan Board Sophomore

    :wow: Andrew, I just sang that Psalm not twenty minutes ago (to the tune Warwick)!
     
  12. Croghanite

    Croghanite Puritan Board Sophomore

    The resources given by the PB posts have been a great benefit to me.
    My family sings from the psalter for family worship and I am close to being fully convinced of EP.
    Thanks for the help brethren :wave:
     
  13. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    Not there yet (and there is but one Fellowship here, there is no EP bunch in town) but the PB has indeed brought me a good way along the path - keep up the good work, guys (and gals)!
     
  14. daveb

    daveb Puritan Board Sophomore

    The PB certainly helped me think through the issue, I believe around the same time as many others. :graduate:
     
  15. JonathanHunt

    JonathanHunt Puritan Board Senior

    PB reinforced me in my views - IP not EP, but was very helpful in the thinking processes, especially comments by Pastor Greco.

    JH
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2007
  16. Ravens

    Ravens Puritan Board Sophomore

    The Puritanboard has been instrumental in changing my mind concerning a few important doctrines. I know everyone rightly cautions people to not see it as a substitute for church; that is obvious, and I fully agree. However, it has played a very important part in many lives, since most people simply don't live in the vicinity of, and have never been exposed to, a church that was historically reformed according to the full meaning of the term.

    The PB was instrumental in changing my views regarding the Lord's Day, and its moved me closer and closer to EP. I'm at the point where I wish EP was true, and would love to practice exclusive psalmody; I have no "grudge effect" against it. However, something still hasn't "locked" the issue down inside of my mind, mostly relative to proving that psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs 100%, without debate, refer only to the psalter. If that point was proven in my mind (and I've read the threads on it), I would embrace it in a heartbeat.

    But there's still some mental knots on that one. And, theology aside, and just practically speaking, I have the same concerns once expressed by Mr. Bushey, namely, I'm very concerned about singing error, and it certainly takes away from my "confidence" in singing hymns, especially if I don't know them. Today, for instance, I abstained from hymns... sometimes I sing them... just undecided on the issue. God willing and guiding, I see myself as EP within a couple months. Its an issue I would like clarity on.
     
  17. Me Died Blue

    Me Died Blue Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    :amen: with the qualification that I still hold to uninspired-inclusion as well (always in addition to Psalms, though).
     
  18. JonathanHunt

    JonathanHunt Puritan Board Senior

    Oh. I thought IP stood for Inclusive Psalmody - by which I meant that worship should include psalmody but not to the exclusion of other hymns and spiritual songs. Oh well...
     
  19. Me Died Blue

    Me Died Blue Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I actually wasn't sure what it stood for ;) , so I did some searching and found people using it to mean "inspired praise" (i.e. more than Psalms, but still only Scripture).

    In any case, we're definitely on the same page regarding our retained position remaining the same, our understanding of it and other positions being sharpened by the board as a whole, and Fred's input on the issue being especially helpful in both of those factors. :)
     
  20. amity

    amity Inactive User

    Hi, everyone. My first post.

    And I hate to swim against the tide on my very first post, but can someone direct me to the best arguments in favor of EP? This evidently has been discussed thoroughly already, and I hate to ask you to do so again, but thus far my strong preference would have to be for hymns. Old hymns sung acapella!

    My reasoning has been that songs are analagous to prayer. Just as I pray using my own words, so songs sung in worship not only don't need to be scripture, but probably should not be scripture, I think. But I do realize there are good arguments in favor of exclusive psalmody that I have not heard yet.

    Thanks! I am very glad to be on this very informative and challenging board.
     
  21. Croghanite

    Croghanite Puritan Board Sophomore

  22. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Moderator

    It is this precise issue which has actually softened my former hardline EP position. It's simply too difficult to prove definitively what Paul meant by "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs." But I won't resurrect that debate here. My posts on the other EP threads express my concerns about that.
     
  23. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Has it been proved that beyond a doubt psalms, hymn, and spiritual songs, doesn't refer to the psalter? If not, then we are left with practical EP still? Are we not? The RPW is about certainly, not uncertainly. We all agree we can sing psalms. Why isn't that enough if there is uncertainty?
     
  24. panta dokimazete

    panta dokimazete Panting Donkey Machete

    Because it would certainly dishonor the liberty given to us by Christ if EP is not absolute.
     
  25. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Moderator

    You would first have to prove that EP was the position of the OT and second temple Judaism, before you could safely assume Paul meant "psalter." You are correct, the RPW is about certainty. We are absolutely certain that we are commanded to sing praise to God. But the content isn't so certain (at least for my satisfaction). Exegetically, I just don't think anyone has sufficiently proven that's what Paul meant. And there were voices of dissent even among the Westminster Divines and later Church of Scotland regarding EP. But again, you can read my posts in the EP threads for further elaboration, or start a new one :)
     
  26. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Oh Noooo! Not an new EP thread! :) Sorry Patrick. I have read most of the threads and have not been swayed by them (Fred, the man, notwithstanding). Certainly there are more folks indicating the PB threads on EP have swayed them otherwise than I"ve seen any one saying they have been unpersuaded of EP by them. But it's early in the year; how many more EP threads do you think we can get in for 2007? ;)
     
  27. Semper Fidelis

    Semper Fidelis 2 Timothy 2:24-25 Staff Member

    Man, with all these converts to EP, we should ask the publishers of "Psalms for Singing" to support our site.

    I think the PuritanBoard has certainly sharpened my mind with respect to EP and the RPW but I'm not sure I'm convinced any more than I was about it's correctness for worship. The thing I struggle with is the perspicuity of it. It simply is not as clear as other key doctrines are. It is certainly very easy to look at the detailed instructions given for OT worship and see how, specifically, Israel rebelled in her Temple and Sacrificial worship.

    What is not clear to me, still, is whether Israel every rebelled in her Synagogue worship and why there is virtual silence on its prescription even during a period when everything else was so closely governed.

    Frankly, I just see too much derived by inference and a need to piece things together fairly elaborately that the whole thing seems to be disputable in the end. At the very least, I have a hard time being as certain that everything but EP is "strange fire" as I am about the rightness or wrongness of a doctrine like justification.

    The interesting thing about this is how "core" this issue is to the EP crowd because, for some of the leaders, non-EP is a violation of the RPW and they would say that the rebellion is akin to forsaking a core doctrine (i.e. like justification). In other words, it is extremely core, in their mind, and is the mark of a true Church in a sense. If this is so, then I'm left wondering on the silence of the Epistles on bad worship. There is in fact, such a paucity of information on the subject, that we're left debating whether "hymns, songs, and spiritual songs" refers to Psalms or not. Whether it is or not, it is clear from the passage in question that Paul is hardly focused on the subject of proper/improper worship as the main idea of his address for that verse.

    That all said, I've come to really love and cherish the Psalms especially as I grow increasingly weary of shallow praise choruses and the decline in Word and Sacrament in favor of "experiencing" God through mystical and pagan repetition. I would gladly attend an EP Church here, if one existed, just to get away from that.

    Also, during family worship, we sing exclusively from the Psalms. The primary reason is that they teach God's Word directly and I want my children to grow up memorizing the Psalms of God. They are beautiful.
     
  28. JohnV

    JohnV Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I know what you mean, Rich. It has brought some things into focus for me, and brought other things into view that weren't there before. I too have reservations about it, somewhat like what you said but also other things. Yet all the same, I can appreciate the good that has come out of it, both for myself and also for others. I'm not a convert by any means, but it has deepened my sense and feel for psalmody.
     
  29. Croghanite

    Croghanite Puritan Board Sophomore

    I agree with this thought. If we are uncertain about the psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs reference, then shouldnt we sing psalms exclusively because we are certain that this is acceptable to God?

    As much as people may not want another thread on EP, we can see from this thread that they have been beneficial to many.
    I still need to see more discussions.
    :candle:
     
  30. panta dokimazete

    panta dokimazete Panting Donkey Machete

    And by the same token, if we know that there is an extra-Psalmic mandate to sing a new song in Isaiah and references to new song in Revelation, then add in the additional references in Psalms, shall we legalistically constrain our liberty and mandate from God?
     
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