EP vs Instruments - No debate please

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Coram Deo

Puritan Board Junior
Assuming one holds already to Exclusive Psalmody and No Instrumentations for worship and considers such as sins..... I would prefer this not to brake out in debate just wanted to know what those that already believe these doctrines think?

Which is the greater sin? Adding mans word to God's Perfect Psalter hence adding to scripture? or Playing Instruments in the worship of God hence bring back the types and shadows of Temple Worship?

If you had a choice between a church that Sang Hymns without instrumentation or a church that sang Psalms with a Piano instrument which would be the prefered choice?

I think in my mind the greater sin would be adding to God's word, but what would you say? How Sinful is it to return to types and shadows of the Old Covenant?

Michael
 

tdowns

Puritan Board Junior
Adding to God's word.....

I never post in these, because....well.....just don't....

But, as I ponder these debates, and I don't really keep up with them all, in my mind, it seems a lot clearer, that, with a whole book of songs, that we know are of God, to choose from, why add anything else (in Corporate worship...at home I'm constantly pouring out my own made up lyrics as prayers and confessions).....but the whole instrument thing, I just never see that as clear.....

So, don't convince me here, I know this is not that thread, but from someone still figuring it out, it would seem to me, I'd rather be in a Psalm only church with instruments, than a non-instrument church with man-created (and often man centered) lyrics.....

But, since I'm convinced of neither position yet, maybe my opinion doesn't count.;) At least it brought it to the top!:D
 

AV1611

Puritan Board Senior
I attended an Anglican church that sang both psalms and old "hymns" accompanied. Why? Because that was the best church I could get to :)
 

Coram Deo

Puritan Board Junior
Thanks for your answer... I also believe that adding to God's word is a larger sin also.... Also thank you for not trying to turn it into a debate.... There is a time and a place for that, but I just wanted an easy short answer....

Just Pondering in my mind what would be worst because say that a church got convinced of EP but have never sung most of those tunes in a Psalter nor have ever sung without an aid of an instrument which for most Americans today is hard, so how great of a sin would it be to have an instrument in worship (Old Covenant Shadow) for a short duration while the congregation is preparing and learning how for themselves to sing without an aid to singing?

Anybody else?

Michael


I never post in these, because....well.....just don't....

But, as I ponder these debates, and I don't really keep up with them all, in my mind, it seems a lot clearer, that, with a whole book of songs, that we know are of God, to choose from, why add anything else (in Corporate worship...at home I'm constantly pouring out my own made up lyrics as prayers and confessions).....but the whole instrument thing, I just never see that as clear.....

So, don't convince me here, I know this is not that thread, but from someone still figuring it out, it would seem to me, I'd rather be in a Psalm only church with instruments, than a non-instrument church with man-created (and often man centered) lyrics.....

But, since I'm convinced of neither position yet, maybe my opinion doesn't count.;) At least it brought it to the top!:D
 

tdowns

Puritan Board Junior
In my still reforming mind.....

In my still reforming mind, I think that would be the perfect church, singing Psalms only with a piano to keep me going and to block out my lousy voice.....:D
 

Bodigean

Puritan Board Freshman
If I had to make a choice like that I would rather have the Psalms with the music. When traveling or at a conference we have had to endure all sorts of situations. Our practise as a family is that if we are at a church where there are modern "hymns" we keep our head down and not sing. We certainly try not to draw attention to ourselves. If there is music accompanying a Psalm we will sing along. Rather difficult to find a EP church within Reformed Baptist circles.
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
I would rather have accompanied Psalms than hymns accompanied or unaccompanied.
If I had to make a choice like that I would rather have the Psalms with the music.
:agree: One may sing Psalms while a musical instrument is played by someone else, but one may not sing uninspired hymns even if they are sung a cappella.

Just curious, is this one of the main reasons not to have instruments accompany the music?
That's right. Musical accompaniment is a vestige of Jewish ceremonial worship which has been abolished. It was appointed (ie., regulated) as part of the Temple worship under the ceremonial law (2 Chron. 29.25-28), but not reaffirmed in the New Testament because it is not moral and abiding. We are instead commanded to make melody in our hearts (Eph. 5.19) which is characteristic of the spiritual worship that the Father seeks (John 4.23-24).

John Calvin, Commentary on the Psalms, Vol. 1, p. 539:

I have no doubt that playing upon cymbals, touching the harp and the viol, and all that kind of music, which is so frequently mentioned in the Psalms, was a part of the education; that is to say, the puerile [i.e., immature] instruction of the law: I speak of the stated service of the temple. For even now, if believers choose to cheer themselves with musical instruments, they should, I think, make it their object not to dissever their cheerfulness from the praises of God. But when they frequent their sacred assemblies, musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists, therefore, have foolishly borrowed this, as well as many other things from the Jews. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise; but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostle is far more pleasing to him.
 

Beth Ellen Nagle

Puritan Board Senior
I am in a church that sings both psalms and hymns with accompaniment. I prefer to sing the Psalter only w/o instruments. We do not take part in hymn singing.
 

Augusta

Puritan Board Doctor
I agree in general with what has been said. We sing psalms at our church and abstain during hymns. Our worship is accompanied with piano and organ. We would prefer psalter only w/o instruments. I think it would be worse to not sing the psalter as commanded with music than to not sing them at all.
 

Coram Deo

Puritan Board Junior
Pastor Langley,

It is an honor to meet you Sir... You are an inspiration to all of us Psalm Singing Reformed Baptist around the world...... I am aware of a few Reformed Baptist Churches around the country moving in a total EP position and many other Reformed Baptist Families following suit..... Your church stands at the top for inspiration. I had hope to meet you one day in person.....

Keep up the good fight..... May the Lord bless you and your family..

Coram Deo,
Michael


If I had to make a choice like that I would rather have the Psalms with the music. When traveling or at a conference we have had to endure all sorts of situations. Our practise as a family is that if we are at a church where there are modern "hymns" we keep our head down and not sing. We certainly try not to draw attention to ourselves. If there is music accompanying a Psalm we will sing along. Rather difficult to find a EP church within Reformed Baptist circles.
 

MW

Puritanboard Amanuensis
I would suggest that musical accompaniment was not instituted under the old economy as something morally neutral, but was given as a "carnal ordinance" for the purpose of accommodating the people's dulness and weakness. It is on this basis that the church has denounced musical accompaniment from the beginning up until the 19th century, insisting that such things are incongruent with the spiritual worship of the New Testament.

Chrysostom, on Ps. 149: "I would say this, that in olden times they were thus led by these instruments because of the dullness of their understanding and their recent deliverance from idols. Just as God allowed animal sacrifices, so also he let them have these instruments, condescending to help their weakness."

Theodoret on Psalm 150: "‘Praise him with psaltery and harp...’ He allowed these things to be done for the reason that he wished to free them from the deception of idols. For since some of them were fond of play and laughter, and all these things were done in the temples of idols, he allowed these things in order to entice them. He used the lesser evil in order to forbid the greater, and used what was imperfect to teach what was perfect."
 

blhowes

Puritan Board Professor
That's right. Musical accompaniment is a vestige of Jewish ceremonial worship which has been abolished. It was appointed (ie., regulated) as part of the Temple worship under the ceremonial law (2 Chron. 29.25-28), but not reaffirmed in the New Testament because it is not moral and abiding. We are instead commanded to make melody in our hearts (Eph. 5.19) which is characteristic of the spiritual worship that the Father seeks (John 4.23-24).
Thanks, Andrew.
 

Bodigean

Puritan Board Freshman
Pastor Langley,

It is an honor to meet you Sir... You are an inspiration to all of us Psalm Singing Reformed Baptist around the world...... I am aware of a few Reformed Baptist Churches around the country moving in a total EP position and many other Reformed Baptist Families following suit..... Your church stands at the top for inspiration. I had hope to meet you one day in person.....

Keep up the good fight..... May the Lord bless you and your family..

Coram Deo,
Michael

Hi Michael,

Good to meet you as well and thank you for the encouragement and kind words. Really, no need to sir me. We praise God for his goodness and mercies. How long have you been of this persuasion? Do you know where these EP Reformed Baptists are? I haven't ran across any churches but know some brethren who have come to the position. I do know some who are no instruments in their worship - John Price in New York and David Simpson (now worshipping at Grace Baptist in Mt. Pleasant, TX.) I have heard there are some EPs but don't know them personally. Be interesting to run across them.

Well, you are certainly welcome to come and visit in Topeka - you would have a place to stay. Not much for excitement though. Spurgeon's library is located about an hour or so away, other than that nothing big.

As for the Psalm singing our church really loves it. The brethren have found great encouragement in singing them as a church and in their families.

Lord bless you. PM me if you would like to carry on. I am really interested in your present situation.
 
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