Durbin Explains Postmil

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JM

Puritan Board Doctor

Pastor Durbin offers reasons to believe in the postmil perspective.
 
The cigar prop made me chuckle. Perhaps he picked that up from Doug Wilson or Joe Thorn. Lol.

I'll give it a listen later. Thanks for posting.
 
Pastor Durbin offers reasons to believe in the postmil perspective.
Ok, somebody had to listen to it, so I did--every word.

Regarding the cigar prop, at times, I found it distracting because I wasn't always watching the video, so I kept thinking the video had stopped or that my internet was out when all it was was him relighting for trying to keep it lit. So I don't think it added anything.

Now that that's out of the way, what about what he said?

I thought starting with the limitation of the term 'postmillennialism' was a pretty good touch. I have often said that 'amillennialism' is an unfortunate term when everybody believes in a millennium of some description. His overall approach was similar to mine; I only think his presentation was too laid-back and too tame for the subject's majesty--The Kingdom of God. Maybe I'll add some more later if there's any interest.

(pardon any typos - I dictated this into my tablet)
 
If I were to leave premillennialism (I'm sitting on the fence), I would opt for "pessimistic amil."
That’s me!

Really? And this doesn't embarrass you?

Numbers 13:27-33
And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it.
Nevertheless, the people be strong that dwell in the land and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover, we saw the children of Anak there.
The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan.

And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.
But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

I guess it's always been about 10 to 2 against the Great Commission. But it won't always be that way.

Now read Numbers chapter 14 for God's opinion of the Joshuah and Caleb vs the 6,000 adults and especially the 10 spies.

And please don't get mad at me. I am just expressing my opinion as you have yours.

Ed
 
Really? And this doesn't embarrass you?

Numbers 13:27-33
And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it.
Nevertheless, the people be strong that dwell in the land and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover, we saw the children of Anak there.
The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan.

And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.
But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

I guess it's always been about 10 to 2 against the Great Commission. But it won't always be that way.

Now read Numbers chapter 14 for God's opinion of the Joshuah and Caleb vs the 6,000 adults and especially the 10 spies.

And please don't get mad at me. I am just expressing my opinion as you have yours.

Ed
No worries! No, I’m not embarrassed to affirm amillennialism, which is the historic position of the church catholic. And I definitely think that the NT makes it clear that while things may wax and wane we will definitely expect to see great apostasy and rebellion prior to the return of Jesus.
 
Really? And this doesn't embarrass you?

Numbers 13:27-33
And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it.
Nevertheless, the people be strong that dwell in the land and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover, we saw the children of Anak there.
The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan.

And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.
But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

I guess it's always been about 10 to 2 against the Great Commission. But it won't always be that way.

Now read Numbers chapter 14 for God's opinion of the Joshuah and Caleb vs the 6,000 adults and especially the 10 spies.

And please don't get mad at me. I am just expressing my opinion as you have yours.

Ed

I'm not saying I am pessmistic amil because it just feels like we are outnumbered. I can make that case on specific exegesis of certain texts. That's where I come from.
 
Antics like smoking cigars or drinking whisky for these kinds of videos are dumb. Should I be impressed that you smoke cigars? I see this kind of stuff and I can't take a guy seriously. It's gimmicky. And like so much else these days, it's faux manly.
 
Antics like smoking cigars or drinking whisky for these kinds of videos are dumb. Should I be impressed that you smoke cigars? I see this kind of stuff and I can't take a guy seriously. It's gimmicky. And like so much else these days, it's faux manly.
I agree. And for those of us who battle with the world, the flesh, and the devil (to borrow a helpful phrase from J.C. Ryle) these gimmicks do nothing to help us in spiritual warfare.

I was reading something of note recently that pointed out that when one met with Martyn Lloyd-Jones, John Newton and Robert M M'Cheyne, the FIRST thing one noticed was that they were holy men. There are no gimmicks with spiritual giants.

We need to remember 1 Cor 10:23 "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things build up."
 
Antics like smoking cigars or drinking whisky for these kinds of videos are dumb. Should I be impressed that you smoke cigars? I see this kind of stuff and I can't take a guy seriously. It's gimmicky. And like so much else these days, it's faux manly.
As much as I love Durbin, believe him to be a godly man, and benefited from his ministry, I find myself agreeing with this.
 
No worries! No, I’m not embarrassed to affirm amillennialism, which is the historic position of the church catholic. And I definitely think that the NT makes it clear that while things may wax and wane we will definitely expect to see great apostasy and rebellion prior to the return of Jesus

In the Old Testament, the majority view was always like that of the ten spies I mentioned above. It was always the few who believed to see the goodness of God in the land of the living. As I said, it will not always be that way. But I suggest there should be little comfort in being with the majority in the matter of the Great Commission.

The Bible, unless I misunderstand it, does speak of an apostasy at the very end. But it seems to be bye radical minority that is very short-lived and put down quickly but the final return of Jesus. I am not ignorant of the Bible's teaching on that topic.

Have you ever considered the little stream that issued forth from the temple in Ezekiel chapter 47? The stream flowed the first thousand cubits, and it was ankle-deep. Then another thousand cubits was measured, and the water was up to the knees. Another thousand, and it was up to the loins, and yet another thousand it became a mighty river that Ezekiel could not pass over. Eventually, it ran to the desert and brought life to that dead region. It continued to the Dead Sea, and everything there that it touched lived. (the sea is usually a type of chaos and the world) But along the banks, there were small pockets of resistance called marshes that were given to salt. This is the picture I have of the future of the Gospel and the opposition and apostasy that will make a big noise for a short time but will be put down quickly by the brightness of His coming.

What do you think Ezekiel's vision teaches?
 
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Unfortunately, I can't read Durbin's name without thinking, "Jeff Dirt-bag" thanks to that KJV-only weirdo that James White plays on the DL -- anyone else can identify? The one who then goes into gibberish and blowing raspberries?

If you don't know what I'm talking about, just ignore.
 
I can't read Durbin's name without thinking, "Jeff Dirt-bag"

I don't think we should call fellow Christians names like that. We are all very flawed. At least I am. But God NEVER sees us as anything but perfect, lovely, and He rejoices over all His own with singing. Such is His passion for ALL the saints. Paul even addressed the screwed-up Corinthians as Saints. Paul saw as God sees.
 
Unfortunately, I can't read Durbin's name without thinking, "Jeff Dirt-bag" thanks to that KJV-only weirdo that James White plays on the DL -- anyone else can identify? The one who then goes into gibberish and blowing raspberries?

If you don't know what I'm talking about, just ignore.
That’s good ol’ Steven Anderson, archenemy of the gospel.
 
I don't think we should call fellow Christians names like that. We are all very flawed. At least I am. But God NEVER sees us as anything but perfect, lovely, and He rejoices over all His own with singing. Such is His passion for ALL the saints. Paul even addressed the screwed-up Corinthians as Saints. Paul saw as God sees.
Certainly not.

Personally, I know very little about Durbin, other than through White's ministry. I do have my reservations with some above re. the cigar-smoking and tattoo stuff. Reminds me just a bit -- just a bit, now -- of some of the immaturity and excesses of Mark Driscoll. That whole "bad-boy" image thing.

Mind you, the rest that I've heard sounds fairly admirable, so my overall impression is still positive.
 
I don't think we should call fellow Christians names like that.
To be clear, “Jeff Dirtbag” is a name assigned to Durbin by Steven Anderson, not our brother Andrew. And I completely agree, Christians should never call each other names like that. But I’m fairly positive Steven Anderson is unregenerate, anyway. It’s inconceivable to me that someone who hates free grace as much as he does would be a genuine believer.
 
What do you think Ezekiel's vision teache

That's a very shaky ground upon which to build an eschatology. Our eschatology is not determined by applications of Old Testament narratives, but to what the Bible, particularly key aspects of the NT, teaches about the end. The only way postmillennialism can dodge is by adopting some form of preterism, and that has its own problems.
 
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To be clear, “Jeff Dirtbag” is a name assigned to Durbin by Steven Anderson, not our brother Andrew. And I completely agree, Christians should never call each other names like that. But I’m fairly positive Steven Anderson is unregenerate, anyway. It’s inconceivable to me that someone who hates free grace as much as he does would be a genuine believer.
Let's be charitable toward Steven. According to a facebook friend that dialogues with him he's growing more understanding toward reformed Christians.
 
No worries! No, I’m not embarrassed to affirm amillennialism, which is the historic position of the church catholic. And I definitely think that the NT makes it clear that while things may wax and wane we will definitely expect to see great apostasy and rebellion prior to the return of Jesus.
How can something never decreed by any council and not the subject of a consensus in any era of the church be called "the historic position of the Catholic church"? I'm tired of seeing Amills twist the history. Is Augustine historic and catholic? His sermon 259 expresses a historic postmillennialism. Are the Reformers historic and catholic? They were unanimous that the pope is the Antichrist and followed historicist interpretative schemes.
 
Let's be charitable toward Steven. According to a facebook friend that dialogues with him he's growing more understanding toward reformed Christians.
That's a good reminder, and I appreciate that. I haven't seen anything form him in a few years. At the same time, I am only going on what he gladly made himself famous for—kicking pulpit while calling Calvinism the work of Satan, throwing tantrums, his hatred of and praying for the damnation of his neighbor, having congregants dragged out of his congregation in a tyrannical fit of rage, and not least his clear hatred for the gospel of free grace. He seems to be proud of his abuse, so if he is in fact changing, that would be amazing, even borderline miraculous, and a sure occasion to praise God.
 
Let's be charitable toward Steven. According to a facebook friend that dialogues with him he's growing more understanding toward reformed Christians.

I believe that this is outdated news. He did (briefly and for reasons totally his own) start cozying up to some Reformed Baptists who were also KJV-Only.

He immediately went back to "Calvinists are Hell Bound Lovers of Satan" rhetoric and hasn't back off since.
 
Let's be charitable toward Steven. According to a facebook friend that dialogues with him he's growing more understanding toward reformed Christians.
Charity is certainly a called for practice, but so is marking false teachers and avoiding them (the later seems to be something that is quickly fading from all Christendom). Steven A does fall into the false teachers category in my opinion. We can of course all continue to pray for his salvation though.
 
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