Does your church sing Psalms?

Does your church sing the Psalms in public worship?


  • Total voters
    79
Status
Not open for further replies.

VaughanRSmith

Puritan Board Sophomore
Curious and not trying to hijack the thread why do so many find EP so attractive?:book2:
Singing inspired text is the only infallible way to follow the command in Col 3:16 (teaching and admonishing), and really, you are singing and meditating on the word of God. Much better than the word of a man who you constantly have to be discerning.

EDIT: I didn't argue Scriptural mandate, because that should be a given. We should sing Psalms, because we are commanded to. But the attractiveness in my mind comes from the comfort and safety of singing the inspired word of god.
 

MW

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Curious and not trying to hijack the thread why do so many find EP so attractive?:book2:
I guess I could sing those sentimental favourites of man's making, and I could say, yes, to a certain degree this is my experience too. But I can sing the Psalms of David and affirm wholeheartedly that this is not any individual's experience, or even of a particular place and time, but it is the experience of every believer in every age throughout the earth. It was the experience of Christ Himself, the embodiment of worship, Heb. 2:12. "These things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come," 1 Cor. 10:11. One cannot say that about a human ditty penned on the basis of a limited experience of God and a fallible conception of His providence and grace.
 

etexas

Puritan Board Doctor
I guess I could sing those sentimental favourites of man's making, and I could say, yes, to a certain degree this is my experience too. But I can sing the Psalms of David and affirm wholeheartedly that this is not any individual's experience, or even of a particular place and time, but it is the experience of every believer in every age throughout the earth. It was the experience of Christ Himself, the embodiment of worship, Heb. 2:12. "These things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come," 1 Cor. 10:11. One cannot say that about a human ditty penned on the basis of a limited experience of God and a fallible conception of His providence and grace.
Once again NO INSULT INTENDED, I just need this clear in my head. If you take this position to an extreme would you not exclude a sermon? In theory you could say a sermon is of man therefore at each service we will read 5,6 or7 chapters of the Holy Writ. Again this is a serous question for me since EP is foreign to me. Grace and Peace.
 
Last edited:

MW

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Once again NO INSULT INTENDED, I just need this clear in my head. If you take this position to an extreme would you not exclude a sermon? In theory you could say a sermon is of man therefore at each service we will read 5,6 or7 chapters of the Holy Writ. Again this is a serous question for me since EP is foreign to me. Grace and Peace.
The Scriptures afford the preacher liberty to expound the Word. This is spoken to men according to their spiritual condition, and others may judge what is said, 1 Cor. 14:29. Praise is declarative, congregational, and of necessity requires a set form.
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
Worship leader here, no Psalter singing. I don't hold strictly to the Regulative Principle of Worship. I'm not opposed to Psalm singing, but I feel good hymns and contemporary songs reflect a more developed theology of who Christ is and what he has done, and thus ought to be preferred.
 

Augusta

Puritan Board Doctor
Worship leader here, no Psalter singing. I don't hold strictly to the Regulative Principle of Worship. I'm not opposed to Psalm singing, but I feel good hymns and contemporary songs reflect a more developed theology of who Christ is and what he has done, and thus ought to be preferred.
:candle:

This is an incredible statement!! You FEEL that good hymns and contemporary songs reflect a more developed theology of Christ than Christ's own revelation of himself in the scriptures. :think: I am completely aghast. We don't have an aghast smilie. :rant:
 

Augusta

Puritan Board Doctor
I suppose you yourself are the arbiter of what is a "good" hymn and what is not. You think that you can do a better job than the Holy Spirit? :um:

:candle:
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
:candle:

This is an incredible statement!! You FEEL that good hymns and contemporary songs reflect a more developed theology of Christ than Christ's own revelation of himself in the scriptures. :think: I am completely aghast. We don't have an aghast smilie. :rant:
Absolutely. I believe we should sing about Christ's death and resurrection and the trinity and many other biblical themes and ideas that were simply not fully developed at the time the Psalter was being used.

You seem to presuppose that Christ is fully revealed in the Psalms. He is not. Christ is only partially revealed.

I suppose you yourself are the arbiter of what is a "good" hymn and what is not. You think that you can do a better job than the Holy Spirit? :um:

:candle:
I think the Holy Spirit informs my conscience.
 

CDM

Puritan Board Junior
Worship leader here, no Psalter singing. I don't hold strictly to the Regulative Principle of Worship. I'm not opposed to Psalm singing, but I feel good hymns and contemporary songs reflect a more developed theology of who Christ is and what he has done, and thus ought to be preferred.
:wow: :barfy:

Your adherence or lack thereof to the RPW is one thing but what does it matter in light of your low-opinion of scripture? Your comment here can almost be described as contemptuous for the Psalms that Jesus Christ sung with his disciples. Psalms aren't good enough for you and whatever worship you "lead" but it was for Christ and his disciples? :think:

So do you even hold to the sufficiency of scripture?

With no exaggeration, I can say I have never read anything on this board so absolutely abysmal.

[Oh, man, I really hope I am grossly misunderstanding your comment] My apologies if I have.
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
:wow: :barfy:

Your adherence or lack thereof to the RPW is one thing but what does it matter in light of your low-opinion of scripture? Your comment here can almost be described as contemptuous for the Psalms that Jesus Christ sung with his disciples. Psalms aren't good enough for you and whatever worship you "lead" but it was for Christ and his disciples? :think:

So do you even hold to the sufficiency of scripture?

With no exaggeration, I can say I have never read anything on this board so absolutely abysmal.

[Oh, man, I really hope I am grossly misunderstanding your comment] My apologies if I have.
I don't hold the Psalms in contempt. I simply recognize that they point to Christ in types and shadows. I hold to the sufficiency of scripture in that I use the whole of scripture to inform what songs we use in worship, and that includes singing about the trinity, the resurrection, etc. which has not fully been developed in Old Testament worship. In a sense, I could turn your accusation around and say "How can you hold to the sufficiency of scripture when you only use one book of it for worship"?

I think Jesus recognized that worshipping from just Old Testament was not going to be sufficient now. He tells the woman at the well that a time is coming when people won't have to worship on a particular mountain or temple. I think the book of Hebrews teaches that Old Testament worship points to types and shadows that are fulfilled in Christ. When people defend Exclusive Psalter, I feel that they are worshipping in types and shadows and not singing about the fullness that is revealed in the entirety of scripture.
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
So did every other heretic through the ages who wrote hymns filled with lies and blasphemy.
Okay, that is uncalled for. We all believe that the Holy Spirit informs a Christian's conscience. PLEASE don't insinuate that I'm a heretic for saying that. That is offensive.
 

panta dokimazete

Panting Donkey Machete
whoaaaaa.....let's calm down now...

elnwood is right - we are recipients of the Holy Spirit AND children of the Book. No song guided by the Holy Spirit will dispute, discredit or disclaim the Word of God.

That being said - we should do as the Scripture says and test everything.

You are putting words in his mouth when you start making assertions.

Passion is good - directed correctly.
 

CDM

Puritan Board Junior
Okay, that is uncalled for. We all believe that the Holy Spirit informs a Christian's conscience. PLEASE don't insinuate that I'm a heretic for saying that. That is offensive.
Read carefully. I didn't say you were a heretic for saying "the Holy Spirit informs a Christian's conscience". Even your own statement that "We all believe..." demonstrates this.

Heretics, who wrote hymns through the ages argued the Holy Spirit informs their consciences -- just like you are arguing. The fact the Holy Spirit is with his people doesn't mean He is inspiring them to write songs.
 

CDM

Puritan Board Junior
I don't hold the Psalms in contempt. I simply recognize that they point to Christ in types and shadows. I hold to the sufficiency of scripture in that I use the whole of scripture to inform what songs we use in worship, and that includes singing about the trinity, the resurrection, etc. which has not fully been developed in Old Testament worship. In a sense, I could turn your accusation around and say "How can you hold to the sufficiency of scripture when you only use one book of it for worship"?
It was not an accusation - it was a question. And a necessary one considering your commentary on the insufficiency of the Psalms.

I think Jesus recognized that worshipping from just Old Testament was not going to be sufficient now. He tells the woman at the well that a time is coming when people won't have to worship on a particular mountain or temple. I think the book of Hebrews teaches that Old Testament worship points to types and shadows that are fulfilled in Christ. When people defend Exclusive Psalter, I feel that they are worshipping in types and shadows and not singing about the fullness that is revealed in the entirety of scripture.
1) Yes, Jesus at the well, told the woman in John:23:2 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

The Psalms by the Spirit are absolutely pure and true. Hymns are not "truth" although some contain truth.

2) Forget Exclusive Psalmody. You wont' even sing one Psalm!

Do you know not know scripture teaches that we ought to sing the Psalms?

{{I will return tonight to the thread}}
 

Davidius

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
To say that the Psalms are insufficient to teach Christ is false. We don't have the New Testament because the Old doesn't teach Christ. Paul commended Timothy to the reading of the Scriptures (Old Testament) which were able to make him wise unto salvation. Jesus showed Himself to the men on the Emmaus road from the Law and the Prophets through the end of the Hebrew Scriptures. He told them that everything about his betrayal, death and resurrection was taught therein. As far as I know, the Book of Psalms is the most quoted book in the NT. We did an entire Psalm-sing at my church once where we went through the book of Hebrews and sang all the Psalms that were quoted to teach about Christ's work.
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
It was not an accusation - it was a question. And a necessary one considering your commentary on the insufficiency of the Psalms.
I felt it was accusation as well as a question. They are not mutually exclusive. For example, if I asked, "Are you stupid or something?" that would be an accusation, and an unkind one at that. In the same way, I think your question, "do you even hold to the sufficiency of scripture?" was indeed an accusation.

1) Yes, Jesus at the well, told the woman in John:23:2 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

The Psalms by the Spirit are absolutely pure and true. Hymns are not "truth" although some contain truth.
Question to you as a Presbyterian: Is the Westminster Confession of Faith truth, or just contain some truth? A hymn or a confession of faith that is faithful to Scripture can indeed be truth and yet not be Scripture itself.

2) Forget Exclusive Psalmody. You wont' even sing one Psalm!

Do you know not know scripture teaches that we ought to sing the Psalms?

{{I will return tonight to the thread}}
That interpretation depends on a narrow reading of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. A psalm is a genre of song, so yes, we do sing psalms.
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
To say that the Psalms are insufficient to teach Christ is false. We don't have the New Testament because the Old doesn't teach Christ. Paul commended Timothy to the reading of the Scriptures (Old Testament) which were able to make him wise unto salvation. Jesus showed Himself to the men on the Emmaus road from the Law and the Prophets through the end of the Hebrew Scriptures. He told them that everything about his betrayal, death and resurrection was taught therein. As far as I know, the Book of Psalms is the most quoted book in the NT. We did an entire Psalm-sing at my church once where we went through the book of Hebrews and sang all the Psalms that were quoted to teach about Christ's work.
David,

I'm not saying that you can't teach about Christ from the Psalms, I'm saying that it is in types and shadows and not fully revealed. For example, where in the Psalms can you teach about Christ's resurrection?

Christ did not say on the road to Emmaus that everything about his death and resurrection was taught therein. Christ says the messiah was to suffer, and pointed out how Christ is in all Scriptures, but not everything that is revealed about Christ in the New Testament is found in the Old Testament!
 

Croghanite

Puritan Board Sophomore
That interpretation depends on a narrow reading of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. A psalm is a genre of song, so yes, we do sing psalms.
So you don't interpret Psalms in that passage as one of the 150 inspired Psalms in Scripture?
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
So you don't interpret Psalms in that passage as one of the 150 inspired Psalms in Scripture?
In Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19, I don't think it means specifically those 150 psalms, although it is inclusive of them. When it means those 150 psalms, the Scripture is very specific, i.e. "the Book of Psalms" (Luke 20:42, Acts 1:20), "the Psalms" (Luke 24:44), "the second Psalm," (Act 13:13), etc.

When is a psalm a psalm? Was it only a psalm when it's included in the Psalter? Or was it a psalm when it was written? I think psalm can be used in a general, genre sense as well as the specific sense. Thus, I think songwriters today can write "psalms" (but not Psalms).
 

Croghanite

Puritan Board Sophomore
In Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19, I don't think it means specifically those 150 psalms, although it is inclusive of them.
Not specifically the 150 Psalms but its inclusive of them...
Then we are commanded to sing at least some of the 150 Psalms, right?
 

Gloria

Puritan Board Sophomore
I voted "sometimes", but really there should be another option. We sing them every Lord's Day but not exclusively. We also sing hymns...
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
Not specifically the 150 Psalms but its inclusive of them...
Then we are commanded to sing at least some of the 150 Psalms, right?
No. That's like saying that if I command you to drink water, then I'm commanding you to drink at least a little bit from Sparkletts since Sparkletts water is water.
 

Croghanite

Puritan Board Sophomore
Don,

I know your answering everyones questions all at once, but could you address my question in post # 48?

I am very interested in what you mean. I hear this a lot and dont understand what people mean by it.

Thanks.
 

Croghanite

Puritan Board Sophomore
No. That's like saying that if I command you to drink water, then I'm commanding you to drink at least a little bit from Sparkletts since Sparkletts water is water.
So then what is the difference between Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs?
 

elnwood

Puritan Board Junior
Don,

I know your answering everyones questions all at once, but could you address my question in post # 48?

I am very interested in what you mean. I hear this a lot and dont understand what people mean by it.

Thanks.
No problem. I don't want you to think that I was ignoring you, although I would have liked to have waited until I go home and look at a systematic theology on pneumatology for some supporting verses, but I'll just give a short answer now.

Basically, what I meant was that every believer is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Some of the purposes of the Spirit within us is to convict our consciences of sin and work us towards sanctification. The Spirit gives us wisdom in our daily lives (1 Cor. 12:8). So what I mean is that I am using my own wisdom, guided by the Spirit. (This does not mean my wisdom is infallible, of course).

I'm using the phrase in the same sense that Paul does when he says "Yet in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God" (1 Corinthians 7:40). Obviously circumstances are different in that Paul is an Apostle with the ability to write Scripture, but I think Paul is exercising Spirit-guided human wisdom in his judgment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top