Does "New Covenant" = "Abrahamic Covenant"?

Status
Not open for further replies.

LawrenceU

Puritan Board Doctor
{Mod}
Not to get off track, but I noticed the avatar in Puritanhead's profile. "Gods and Generals" has to be one of the worst movies of all time ever made. I'm sorry, but I have to say this, regardless of the consequences. I cannot remember sitting through over 2.5 hours of pure, unadulterated, unbridled DUNG said to be writing and acting. Seriously, "Gods and Generals" would be one of the most horrible level's of Dante's hell.

That is getting terribly off track. And, please refrain from scatalogical description.
 

Texas Aggie

Puritan Board Freshman
I see the New Covenant as completely new.... new to us (the gentiles). This is a New Covenant established for the redemption and salvation of the elect from the gentile nations.

The provisions of the covenant are pretty clear as well as God's expectations for the partakers.
 

biblelighthouse

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Theological Books
Not to get off track, but I noticed the avatar in Puritanhead's profile. "Gods and Generals" has to be one of the worst movies of all time ever made.

"Gods and Generals" is one of the best all-time movies I have ever seen. It nearly brought me to tears. That is the movie that made me fall in love with the historical character of Stonewall Jackson. I LOVE that movie!
 

biblelighthouse

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by puritancovenanter
Originally posted by biblelighthouse
Originally posted by Puritanhead
:bigsmile:


Don't smile so big, Ryan . . . you know Stonewall was a PRESBYTERIAN! So he certainly didn't have any problem with paedobaptism . . .


:lol:
Nobody is perfect in everything.

I know, but I still think you and Ryan are ok anyway.


:bigsmile:
 

Steve Owen

Puritan Board Sophomore
Hello Wayne,

Originally posted by wsw201
Martin,
Regarding you first question concerning Hebrews, I checked a few commentaries and there was no clear answer as to why the Mosaic Covenant was referred to as the first covenant. Based on my own speculation, I think the context of Chapter 7 and 8 may be the reason. In these chapters he is discussing the priesthood, which was established under the Mosaic Covenant a Covenant made with the house of Israel. For the Jews, this would have been the most important covenant made and since this letter was written to the "œHebrews", the emphasis would be on that particular covenant.

Thank you or that, Wayne, but I don't think it will quite do, becase Paul also, in Gal 4:21ff refers only to two covenants, which are clearly the Mosaic ('Mt Sinai') and the New. We are urged to 'Cast out the bond woman and her son' (v30 ); in other words, to forsake the Mosaic Covenant and concentrate on the New.

To look for a single linear progression of the covenants does not therefore seem to work. I suggest that we need to look rather at three sets of covenants:-

1. The Covenants of Works and Grace. These covenants were made with a federal Head, who acted on behalf of all his seed.

2. The Covenants of Promise (Eph 2:12 ).. These are the 'Adamic' covenant of Gen 3:15 & 21, the Noahic, the Abrahamic and the Davidic. These were made with individuals and their seed; not their physical descendants but their spiritual offspring (Isaiah 55:3; Gal 3:7 ). The promise is that of Christ and the New Covenant. These covenants are not the New Covenant, but promises, foreshadowings and adumbrations of it (Luke 1:69-70; Rom 1:1-3; Col 1:26-27 ). Each Covenant of promise adds to the information of the previous one. When the prophet Abel (Luke 11:50-51 ) sacrificed the finest lamb of his flock, he was looking forward by faith to the Seed promised in Gen 3:15 and the covering of sin foreshadowed in Gen 3:21; in other words to that first Covenant of promise revealed in the garden which spoke of the Covenant of Grace made in eternity, and the coming New Covenant.

3. The 'Old' and New Covenants. These are made with a people through a mediator. The OC was made with the physical descendants of the Patriarchs (the 'Children of Israel'); the NC was made with their spiritual descendants. The whole purpose of the OC was to produce a people amongst whom the Messiah could be born. Having served its purpose it has now passed away (Heb 8:13 ). The New Covenant is revealed to be none other than the realization in time of the Covenant of Grace, therefore it is called the Everlasting Covenant (Heb 13:20 ).

Therefore it can be said that there is but one covenant by which God saves His elect. Determined in eternity (Eph 1:3ff), foreshadowed to the saints (John 8:56; 1Peter 1:10-12 ) and revealed in due time (Rom 3:21-22 etc) it is of Christ from first to last, 'That in all things He might have the preeminence' (Col 1:18 ).

I'll be interested to get everyone's reaction to all this. Time has prevented me from fleshing it out as I should.

Grace & Peace,

Martin
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by puritancovenanter
To put things in an inadequate light, The Mosaic Covenant was related in essence to the Covenant of works. The Abrahmic covenant and the New covenant were the publication, at the human level, in two related forms of the eternal covenant of grace (or Covenant of Redemption).[/b] In eternity God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit covenanted to redeem the elect, but putting this in operation on earth meant the publication and ratification of the Abrahamic and New Covenants.
Peter Toon on John Owen and Covenant Theology.

I think Peter Toon discussing Owen would agree somewhat with what you are saying Martin.
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Originally posted by biblelighthouse
Originally posted by Theological Books
Not to get off track, but I noticed the avatar in Puritanhead's profile. "Gods and Generals" has to be one of the worst movies of all time ever made.

"Gods and Generals" is one of the best all-time movies I have ever seen. It nearly brought me to tears. That is the movie that made me fall in love with the historical character of Stonewall Jackson. I LOVE that movie!

:ditto:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top