Divorce and the Ministry

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dave knott

dave knott

Puritan Board Freshman
need some help. I have been saved for 40 years but have only been reformed for 5 years. I have an associates degree and am seeking a bachelor's degree. I am a divorced and remarried person. I divorced because of adultery. 5 years later I met someone who divorced for the same reason. presently I am reformed baptist, however, I am leaning presbyterian very strongly. my question is would my divorce disqualify me from becoming a preacher either in the reformed baptist or Presbyterian faith? thank you
 
In my humble opinion, if you are looking to enter the ministry, you should probably aim to settle your Baptist/Presbyterian convictions.
 
Moderating: Dave is a new member so does not have access to full member forums yet (kicks in after 26 posts). Not dinging any of the above advice, but let's "play like" this is in the elders' advice only forum.
 
my convictions for pres. are simply put and not to offend anyone but here they are: most authors from many topics simply seem more bible based (scriptural) are 99% Presbyterian. don't get me wrong Bunyan is good however I have not read much by him that convinces me of the "particular baptist" or anything by Spurgeon to convince me of their "particular" view. however, there are many authors who explain their view who are presbyterian view. and when it comes to covenant theology, well the baptist (to me at least) seem not to understand the old covenant 100% and if that is not understood 100% the new covenant will never be understood 100%. hope this makes sense
 
dave knott said:
need some help. I have been saved for 40 years but have only been reformed for 5 years. I have an associates degree and am seeking a bachelor's degree. I am a divorced and remarried person. I divorced because of adultery. 5 years later I met someone who divorced for the same reason. presently I am reformed baptist, however, I am leaning presbyterian very strongly. my question is would my divorce disqualify me from becoming a preacher either in the reformed baptist or Presbyterian faith? thank you
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If the question is: does having a past divorce automatically disqualify a man from the ministry, the answer is "no."

Is it important that any church seeking a pastor know this aspect of a man's past? Yes, and most of the time that question is part of any preliminary questionnaire a man fills out. Explaining the circumstances of why a man has been married "more than once" is just par for the course.

Could an honest answer make a man less attractive to some congregation? Possibly, but the thing to remember for any man considering a call to the ministry is that Christ does the calling through the church. So, if HE wants you to serve, and has a place for you, there is no power on earth that can prevent it.

Conversely, if Christ is not truly calling you, you will not overcome his "No." You might end up in the pulpit someplace, but not "by the grace of God;" though, perhaps as a species of judgment or chastisement. I'm not discouraging your pursuit; I'm being frank about the nature of a true call.

I do not know what sort of education you have, or are presently pursuing. Most Presbyterian denominations (and the congregations thereof) do not seriously consider candidates for their ministerial openings who do not have an MDiv, or its equivalent (for example, some men do ministerial training in seminary who have not been to college for a 4-yr Bachelor degree; they take the same courses as MDiv students, but their degree award is "BDiv").

The reality is that seminary is the standard place where Presbyterian ministers are trained. Baptist churches are a little more likely (to my knowledge) to also consider men (besides seminarians) who have instead been trained in a ministry/preaching "institute" or similar training ground, or a Bible School.

As someone else has written, if you are considering a Presbyterian denomination as a place of future ministry, you should "learn the culture." It is not as easy as changing your shirt. Whether you are an exclusive-adult-immersionist, or a baby-sprinkler, is also partly determined or revealed by how you read and interpret Scripture on the whole. You learn a lot of that by sitting in a pew, among other things.

Presbyterians aren't just ReformedBaptists who sprinkle babies. Thinking a priori--that we're all just baked in the same theological oven for a slightly different times, or heat, or rack--I can almost guarantee will cause you to wake up with a bitter taste in your mouth. That's the wrong assumption, so I'm offering up a warning in hopes you won't make that mistake.

Are you pushing 50yrs of age? If you are considering a vocational shift into the ministry at this late date, I sincerely hope that you realize there is no $$ in this work (if your call should come), certainly not in conservative churches. You should have some other retirement plan. You needs be truly called to this labor, if it will be your full-time service; a real sense that "woe" be unto you if you preach not the gospel. Because, after you have put in ten years and may then be feeling the toll on your body and spirit, there's no time left for reassessment.

Again, this is not a word I offer in order to rein you in, or discourage you. But these are things that you need to have thought about, now not later.
 
dave knott said:
my convictions for pres. are simply put and not to offend anyone but here they are: most authors from many topics simply seem more bible based (scriptural) are 99% Presbyterian. don't get me wrong Bunyan is good however I have not read much by him that convinces me of the "particular baptist" or anything by Spurgeon to convince me of their "particular" view. however, there are many authors who explain their view who are presbyterian view. and when it comes to covenant theology, well the baptist (to me at least) seem not to understand the old covenant 100% and if that is not understood 100% the new covenant will never be understood 100%. hope this makes sense
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Welcome Dave,
Much could be said about qualifications for ministry. At this point, I'd start with a straightforward point: people don't get ordained to the Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist faith, they get ordained by particular churches/denominations for particular calls. That means that whatever anyone on the board says may be pious advice but carries no weight. Presumably you are a member of a church. What do the elders of that church say? If you think you might desire to be ordained in a different denomination from the one which you attend, it would make sense for you to join a church of that particular denomination and spend some time as a learner before seeking to become a teacher. Different denominations and presbyteries may have different takes on your position, and your own elders are in a much better position to assess your situation and gifting (which is much broader than your marital history, though that is not unimportant) and give you good guidance than strangers opining from a distance.
 
cash is the least of my interests. yes I feel called to this ministry, more like being pulled into this ministry
 
right now, I live in an extremely rural area. there are more bears than people. the population of this town is well under 100. the church I am now attending is Arminian. with members (50) well over 60 years of age. the church is dying. the preacher there is pastoring another church in another town whose church is dying as well. this church is all that is here. the closest church is 40 miles away and in this rural area that makes travel in the winter months impossible also there are no elders at this church.
 
I'd consider perusing this area of ministry materials at APM. About 1/3 the way down the page there are evaluations that give you a synopsis of important pastoral works.
(Devour this book later: “The Best Method of Preaching” by Peter van Mastricht )

I'd consider these books on preaching and ministry as a whole.

But, for the immediate need and for the OP (I'd agree with Bruce) consequently, I'd read / study the following:
William Perkin's The Calling of the Ministry
Alexander Vinet's Pastoral Theology
My work, The Lord's Voice Cries to the City: A Biblical Guide for Hearing the Word of God Preached

I'd also echo the previous exhortation, make sure you have your distinctives down pat. That means knowing where you are in Covenant Theology, where you are on church government, where you are on sacraments, where you are on the RPW and worship, etc.

Consider, also, God doesn't "need you." Yes, you might see a need, yet, instead of "going into the ministry" because of the need that there are 100 people in your town and no good churches, you might move. Planting (r)eformed Churches is not easy. Planting Reformed Churches is even harder.
 
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C. Matthew McMahon said:
I'd consider perusing this area of ministry materials at APM. About 1/3 the way down the page there are evaluations that give you a synopsis of important pastoral works.
(Devour this book later: “The Best Method of Preaching” by Peter van Mastricht )

I'd consider these books on preaching and ministry as a whole.

But, for the immediate need and for the OP I'd read / study the following:
William Perkin's The Calling of the Ministry
Alexander Vinet's Pastoral Theology
My work, The Lord's Voice Cries to the City: A Biblical Guide for Hearing the Word of God Preached

I'd also echo the previous exhortation, make sure you have your distinctives down pat. That means knowing where you are in Covenant Theology, where you are on church government, where you are on sacraments, where you are on the RPW and worship, etc.

Consider, also, God doesn't "need you." Yes, you might see a need, yet, instead of "going into the ministry" because of the need that there are 100 people in your town and no good churches, you might move. Planting (r)eformed Churches is not easy. Planting Reformed Churches is even harder.
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thank you for responding. I appreciate the recommendations of those books.
as far as "my calling" i look at it like this- if there is one, it will become manifest even living in this micro of a community.
 
dave knott said:
thank you for responding. I appreciate the recommendations of those books.
as far as "my calling" i look at it like this- if there is one, it will become manifest even living in this micro of a community.
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Without a doubt that's true. We need more ministers who are 1 in a 1000.

I would only question how a town of 100 people, who are Arminian for the most part (and they most likely don't know what that means), call an openly and forthwith "reformed, calvinistic, etc." minister who is going to lead them in a specific direction away from what they are used to. That would be exceedingly unusual for something like that to successfully occur.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm just speaking from first hand experience. Plus you'd have to deal with them on the same issue you brought up in the OP. Over 60, old Arminian school, that might be a difficult road to hoe.

(BTW - I was assuming in your OP that you and you current wife are the "victims" of the adultery. Keep in mind there are whole denominations that immediately exclude people from ministry for "any kind" of divorce.)
 
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well, first of all, i am not trying to gain the pulpit. at most i would fill in as a substitute when necessary. and secondly, working on my masters with no immediate plans of preaching anywhere.
 
Before doing anything, you need to determine if you are presbyterian or baptist. That was said above, I am echoing that.
 
dave knott said:
well, first of all, i am not trying to gain the pulpit. at most i would fill in as a substitute when necessary. and secondly, working on my masters with no immediate plans of preaching anywhere.
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Moderation reminder

Dave, I appreciate your good-faith questions. I'm reminding of the PuritanBoard rule about proper form:

"4. Use Proper Grammar, Punctuation, and Capitalization

If English is not your second language, then you are expected to show other board members the courtesy of properly punctuating and capitalizing your posts. It is commonplace on the web to disregard these rules but improper grammar does not demonstrate consideration toward others who are trying to understand what you communicate. Mistakes in grammar are understandable but willful sloth may result in posts being deleted if they are consistently sloppy."

https://www.puritanboard.com/help/terms

Please appropriate capitalization in your sentences.

Thanks, and, carry on....
 
dave knott said:
would my divorce disqualify me from becoming a preacher either in the reformed baptist or Presbyterian faith?
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I'll leave the advice to those more qualified and limit myself to answering your question.

I've known two divorced and remarried PCA pastors. Both served at larger churches. One divorced and re-married while serving as an associate of a very large church, and was subsequently called to pastor a smaller, but still large church as senior pastor. I'll have to leave the other Presbyterian denominations to speak for themselves.
 
thank you, Victor. I have read- Kingdom Prologue by Kline, The Economy of The Covenants by Witsius. Kline's book, a reformed preacher and I read it together. Sorry about my grammar, it is an embarrassment, I quit school when I was in 6th grade to work so I could help my mother buy food. My dad died when I was 4 and we had no family. times back then were hard for a single woman with 2 children. I use the app "Grammarly" so my Grammar is not so bad.
 
dave knott said:
thank you, Victor. I have read- Kingdom Prologue by Kline, The Economy of The Covenants by Witsius. Kline's book, a reformed preacher and I read it together. Sorry about my grammar, it is an embarrassment, I quit school when I was in 6th grade to work so I could help my mother buy food. My dad died when I was 4 and we had no family. times back then were hard for a single woman with 2 children. I use the app "Grammarly" so my Grammar is not so bad.
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Thanks be to God, Dave, that you were able to continue your education to overcome some of the hard providences of God.

I think the more immediate matter is the use of capitalization, as noted above. It makes for a better user experience all around, as our site (a long discussion format) is not akin to a chat box environment wherein stilted phrases, internet acronyms, little or no punctuation, abounds.

Fortunately, any post you submit can be edited once again within a few hours of posting it. We all make mistakes, and I make it a habit to check what I have just posted to make sure I have not fouled something up. Just click the "Edit" button of your post and you can make any needed corrections.
 
iainduguid said:
it would make sense for you to join a church of that particular denomination and spend some time as a learner before seeking to become a teacher.
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Indeed, sound advice! Do not follow in the steps of someone like the early church writer Ambrose...

Ambrose (c. 339-97): I make no claims, of course, to the glory of the Apostles—whoever could, other than those whom the Son of God himself chose? Nor do I claim to have the grace of the prophets, or the power of the evangelists, or the vigilance of the pastors. My wish is only to attain to the attention and diligence towards the divine Scriptures which the apostle ranked last of all among the duties of the saints, This is all I desire, so that, in my endeavor to teach others, I might be able to learn myself. For there is only one true Master, who never had to learn all that he taught everyone else: in this he is unique. Ordinary men must learn beforehand what they are to teach, and receive from him what they are to pass on to others.
In my own case, not even this was allowed. I was snatched into the priesthood from a life spent at tribunals and amidst the paraphernalia of administrative office, and I began to teach you things I had not learnt myself. The result was that I started to teach before I had started to learn. With me, then, it is a matter of learning and teaching all at the same time, since no opportunity was given me to learn in advance. Ivor J. Davidson, Ambrose, De Officiis (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2001), Book 1, Chapter 1, §3-4, p. 119.
Latin text: 3. Non igitur mihi apostolorum gloriam vindico. Quis enim hoc, nisi quos ipse Filius elegit Dei? Non prophetarum gratiam, non virtutem evangelistarum, non pastorum circumspectionem: sed tantummodo intentionem et diligentiam circa Scripturas divinas opto assequi, quam ultimam posuit Apostolus inter officia sanctorum, et hanc ipsam ut docendi studio possim discere. Unus enim verus magister est, qui solus non didicit quod omnes doceret: homines autem discunt prius quod doceant, et ab illo accipiunt quod aliis tradant.
4. Quod ne ipsum quidem mihi accidit. Ego enim raptus de tribunalibus atque administrationis infulis ad sacerdotium, docere vos coepi, quod ipse non didici. Itaque factum est ut prius docere inciperem, quam discere. Discendum igitur mihi simul et docendum est; quoniam non vacavit ante discere. De Officiis, Liber Primus, Caput I, §3-4, PL 16:24-25.
 
This response was not to what anyone else posted. All I was reiterating was an old adage "his grace is sufficient for me".
 
dave knott said:
God's providence is the only thing needed to live a Godly life, all else is but dung.
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Dave, it may be helpful to consider that God's providence and His will are one in the same. There are some things about God's will that are presented clearly in scripture. There are other things that are withheld from our understanding. All this to say that we often do not always understand how God operates, so saying that God's providence is the only thing we need to live a godly life put us at an extreme disadvantage. However, God's word is a different matter. Chapter 1.1 of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith reads:

The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
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God has provided us with His word as the sole authority for all matters of faith and practice. It is the Bible, and obedience unto its commands, that helps us lead a godly life. When we trust in God's word it carries us through those times when our finite understanding is unable to understand God's will.
 
Herald, Thank You, I Agree, The Providence Of God Always, Every time, 100% Works Exactly The Way He Wants.
 
@dave knott

I just deleted three posts of yours that were quotes of posts with no responses from you.

Use the Reply link to response to a post. This will add the text of the post you are replying to in the Editor. Then add your own response below the text that has been copied and pasted in the Editor. Make sure to add your text after the closing QUOTE tag that appears at the end of the copied and pasted content:
Code: 
[/quote]

In the example below I have selected the Reply link to your post immediately above. Note that my response comes after the ending QUOTE tag with the forward slash / character.
Code: 
[QUOTE="dave knott, post: 1175971, member: 10852"]Jonah Was A Perfect Example Of Divine Providence.[/QUOTE]
AMR's response to the quoted post above goes here...after that last [/QUOTE] tag.

Then just submit the post and all should be fine.
 
Ask Mr. Religion said:
@dave knott

I just deleted three posts of yours that were quotes of posts with no responses from you.

Use the Reply link to response to a post. This will add the text of the post you are replying to in the Editor. Then add your own response below the text that has been copied and pasted in the Editor. Make sure to add your text after the closing QUOTE tag that appears at the end of the copied and pasted content:
Code: 
[/quote]

In the example below I have selected the Reply link to your post immediately above. Note that my response comes after the ending QUOTE tag with the forward slash / character.
Code: 
[QUOTE="dave knott, post: 1175971, member: 10852"]Jonah Was A Perfect Example Of Divine Providence.[/QUOTE]
AMR's response to the quoted post above goes here...after that last [/QUOTE] tag.

Then just submit the post and all should be fine.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I think I figured out how this thing works. I deleted someone's post by accident.
 
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