Dispies ignore the fact that Hal Lindsey.....

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Average Joey, Jan 18, 2005.

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  1. Average Joey

    Average Joey Puritan Board Junior

    Has been married four times while at the same time he wrote books that apply Christianity to them.I asked some of them today if it would bother them if their pastor were to divorce and remarry multiple times.I`m sure they`ll ignore the question.:banghead:
  2. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

    GASP! I had NO idea!
  3. voided user1

    voided user1 Puritan Board Freshman

    Honestly, I don't know any Dispeys that reference Hal Lindsey or even realize he exists.
  4. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    Almost every dispie I know not only knows of Hal, but refrences him often. The more "aware" dispies know of his ills and cleverly avoid him, but your average fundamental dispie still enjoys his works and refrences them often especially his TV show.
  5. Me Died Blue

    Me Died Blue Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Indeed - my grandma watches his "Intelligence Briefing" like it's the news gone holy.
  6. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor


    Don't mean to laughChris but I found that hillarious!
  7. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

  8. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

  9. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

    Checked my bookshelves...fortunately for his books, they weren't on them
  10. bond-servant

    bond-servant Puritan Board Sophomore

    Wow. Some of the names listed on this link are:
    Charles Stanley, well-known Southern Baptist pastor and former president of the SBC, recently went through a divorce. When the news was announced to the First Baptist Church of Atlanta in May, the newly divorced pastor received a standing ovation from the congregation. The wife of Ned Graham, son of Billy Graham, divorced him on the basis of "Å“infidelity, domestic violence, and drug and alcohol abuse." Ned is head of East Gate Ministries, which distributes Bibles in China, and he continues to be supported in that capacity by his famous father. Well-known Christian author Hal Lindsey has been divorced multiple times. Bob Larson is divorced. Many others could be mentioned.
    Sandi Patty, Deniece Williams, Sheila Walsh, John Talbot, Randy Stonehill, Larry Norman, Tom Howard, Ralph Carmichael, Steve Archer, Amy Grant and Gary Chapman (both Amy and Gary have gotten remarried since their 1997 divorce), Stacy Jones of the rap group Grits, and all of the members of the now disbanded Barnabas. Melody Green, widowed wife of Keith Green (who was killed in a plane crash in 1982), recently divorced her second husband, Andrew Sievright.

    Divorce is also rampant among Pentecostal-Charismatic leaders. Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Four Square Pentecostal Churches, was a divorced adulteress, as was famous Pentecostal evangelist Kathryn Kuhlmann. Richard Roberts, who is in the process of taking over the ministry of his father, Oral, divorced his first wife and married a Oral Roberts University student. Jim and Tammy Bakker divorced and are both remarried. In July of this year, two well-known Charismatic pastors got divorces (Ray McCauley of Johannesburg, South Africa, and Clarence McClendon of Los Angeles). John Jacobs, founder of the Power Team, was divorced from his wife of 16 years this summer. Hundreds of other Charismatics could be mentioned.

    Sadly, some elements of the fundamental Baptist movement are also guilty in this matter. Pastor Peter Ruckman of Pensacola, Florida, is twice divorced and thrice married yet remains in the pastorate and mocks anyone who believes he is disqualified.

    -What ever happened to being 'salt and light' (Matt 5:13ff) and Christians looking different than the rest of the world?
  11. voided user1

    voided user1 Puritan Board Freshman

    I came from a more conservative, less ethically challenged version of Dispie evidentally. Never heard of him till this board...
  12. Average Joey

    Average Joey Puritan Board Junior

    In the case of Charles Stanley,I have heard he tried hard to keep from divorcing his wife.He even left the ministry afterwards but was begged to come back by his congregation.He prayed much about it and is repentant of what happened.

    I am happy about Amy Grant and her husband getting back together.I didn`t know about that.
  13. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    We've discussed Charles Stanley elsewhere on this board. Check it out. It is worth a rereading.
  14. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    I believe the comment about them both "getting remarried" was in regard to them each marrying someone new.
  15. Average Joey

    Average Joey Puritan Board Junior

  16. just_grace

    just_grace Puritan Board Freshman


    I suffered an unwanted divorce, it nearly destroyed me. In fact an unwanted divorce will rob you of almost everything.
    I will not go into the details here but I certainly would not want to go through it again.

    Not sure if I will marry again, even though I have it on authority from the Lord Himself that I am free to marry again.

    Once bitten and all that...

    God hates divorce and I do too :(
  17. Average Joey

    Average Joey Puritan Board Junior

    It`s so sad to read that.Especially,considering they kept telling me that they donnot follow or look up to him.They remind me of politicians.

    [Edited on 1-21-2005 by Average Joey]
  18. bigheavyq

    bigheavyq Puritan Board Freshman

    I don't know what the problem with his lifestyle is. it far less tainted than Scofield's is. Lindsey is just following in the footsteps of the giants of dispensationalism.
  19. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

    Okay, someone tell me about Scofield....he was THE authority when I was growing up....
  20. Ivan

    Ivan Pastor

    I had a Scofield Bible for a while in my teenage years...what's the story?
  21. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    Now now.... don't throw stones at Hal over his divorce. Over on our side, we have our own Gerstners to deal with.

    (btw, I don't condone his divorces either)
  22. tcalbrecht

    tcalbrecht Puritan Board Junior

    Amy is now "happily" married to Vince Gill. :banghead:
  23. voided user1

    voided user1 Puritan Board Freshman

    As for me, I realize there are personal issues with leaders of various stripes. I have known plenty of Dispensationalists that don't subscribe to the Hal Lindseys of the world. Just because these people are hermeneutically challenged doesn't mean we need to unilaterally villify their character. Ad hominem never has quite done it for me.
  24. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    My issue with dispensationalists is this.

    Most of them that I have encountered completely write off any opinion that is not dispensational! I have offered prrof text after proof text to countless friends and family who are dispensational that they have no answers for, but they are not moved in any way by that.

    I am very concerend by that.

    I also believe that dispensationalism could be another gospel. They have two plans of redemption, hold to animal sacrafices returning, and a few other heretical beliefs that pervert the scriptures into something that frightens me.

    Many people I love dearly are hard core dispensationalists thus my concern.
  25. Average Joey

    Average Joey Puritan Board Junior

    The scariest above is TWO plans of redemption.That is heretical.We have to consider that in the Bible it says those in the OT were saved by the same thing faith in Christ:

    Job 19:25 For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [day] upon the earth:
  26. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    Plus those who believe the Holy Spirit will not be on the Earth during the Tribulation and to be saved you will have to treat Jews good to prove your salvation.:banghead:
  27. Average Joey

    Average Joey Puritan Board Junior

    I didn`t know about that part.I have heard that they still have to believe in Christ.

    Ah,but there is a huge hole in their theory.

    1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that]no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.[/color]
  28. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    But don't a lot of reformed folks do the same thing ? I've seen it on this forum!

    No they don't. This charge has been floating around for decades and it needs to die. Ryrie answered it in 65 and again in 94 with his revised 'Dispensationalism' (updated version of Dispensationalism Today). Chafer, who was presbyterian, answered it REPEATEDLY in print when challenged and provided plenty of clarification to his comments. No revised dispensationalist (which is most of what's walking around today) or progressive dispy can be legitimately charged with teaching two ways of salvation!

    And yes, I've read Gerstner's 'Wrongly Dividing' and have several anti-dispy books on my shelves which DO make some good points against traditional or classic dispensationalism. Problem is.... 90% of folks today aren't classic dispensationalists. They fall under the 'revised' category (1950-1990) or they're in the new 'third generation' of dispy writers like Ice, Thomas, Frutchenbaum, MacArthur and others. Ryrie has clearly stated:

    "Even as recently as 1991 John Gerstner aired this charge again. However, Vern Poythress doe snot raise the issue at all. that there are two ways of salvation appears to be a conclusion that nondispenationalists have tried for decades to dforce on dispensationalists, for even earlier dispensationalists did not teach what they are charged with. Nevertheless, the attack persists despite repeated denials on the part of dispensationalists. It's almost as if antidispensationalists do not want to hear what is being said because it is more convenient to attack the so-called 'logical' conclusions they force on dispensationalism." (pp. 106, 94 edition of 'Dispensationalism')

    Chafer himself clearly rejected such an idea here:

    "Are there two ways by which one may be saved ? In reply to this question it may be stated that salvation of whatever specific character is ALWAYS the work of God in behalf of man and never a work of man in behalf o God. This is to assert that God never saved any one person or group of persons on any other ground that that righteous freedom to do so which the Cross of Christ secured. There is, therefore, but ONE way to be saved and that way is by the power of God made possible through the sacrifice of Christ." ( L.S. Chafer, "Inventing Heretics Through Misunderstanding," BibSac 102 (Janaray 1945) p. 1).

    So can we give this nonsense a rest now ? God isn't glorified when lies are propogated.
  29. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    Can you give a reference where a legit dispy author teaches that, Adam ?

    I have most of the 'standard' dispensational eschatalogical works on my shelves (including J.D. Pentecosts' "Things to Come" and Willmington's abridged version of it called "The Coming King") and none of what you say above is true.

    What IS said is that the RESTRAINING INFLUENCE of the Holy Spirit will be taken away, not the Spirit Himself (because He is omnipresent). Tribulation saints are 'washed in the blood of the lamb' in the same way that non-trib saints are (btw, I don't believe in some separation of 'tribulation saints' from 'the church' as in the classic dispy view, but I *do* believe in representing someone else's viewpoint accurately and truthfully).

    Now maybe some of the quacks like the Lalondes or Hagee may teach this nonsense....but how much academic credibility do they get ? It's easy to attack the nuts who claim similar eschatology.
  30. Average Joey

    Average Joey Puritan Board Junior

    Yes it is probably Hagee who is teaching this.Sadly this view is growing.
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