Dispensational Nature of Israel?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fly Caster

Puritan Board Sophomore
I rarely post here, although I read the forums often and find them helpful. I have this question that I hope to get some help with. In the Dispensational scheme, would the primary nature of "Israel" be considered ethnic, political, religious, or something else? This is a question that I've posed to my Dispensational friends but with no real answer. In reading Dispensational articles, quite often authors use the political identity (State of Israel) and the ethnic identity (the Jews) interchangeably (and inconsistently), such as in this quote

“Only Dispensationalism clearly sees a distinctive future for ethnic Israel as a nation.” This future includes a restoration of the nation with a distinct identity and function.

When I press the issue, my Dispensational friends fall back to their claim that Israel is not the Church, and that certain promise made to Israel can not apply to the church. When it comes to determining what the true Israel actually IS, I can't get a clear definition. If it is ethnic, how pure must one's ethnicity be to receive the promises? If it is political, would the promises apply to all citizens of the State of Israel alike, regardless of ethnicity? I hope I'm not tilting at windmills; any help would be appreciated.

I'll go back to lurking now...:tombstone:
 

Jimmy the Greek

Puritan Board Senior
Since dispensationalists all experienced theological orgasms when The state of Israel was formed in 1948, and again after the 6-Day war in 1967, it must be political as well as ethnic.
 

tcalbrecht

Puritan Board Junior
In my interaction with dispensationalists over the years, there is one equation that defies a straight answer our friends, and that is simply this, "Explain what Paul means by the phrase ‘all Israel’ in Romans 11:26 from the Bible alone beginning with Romans 9:6." Romans 11 is a fundamental passage for dispensationalism, yet more often than not the interpretation of the passage is based on pure speculation about key themes like, the root, "fullness of the gentiles", ingrafting, Israel, etc, not to mention a improper understanding of the covenant and the people of God.

The future which dispensationalists see for Israel is based entirely on a faulty hyper-literalist reading of the OT. It fails to account for the promises and blessing made to Abraham being entirely fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and accruing to Christians by virtue of our standing as children of Abraham.

Then there are the schizophrenic notions resulting from the idea that God’s have tow covenant people; Israel and the Church. E.g., are "church age" Jews kinda second class citizens to their tribulation/millennial kingdom brethren? Or do they receive both physical and spiritual blessings?

Don't expect to ever get a good answer.
 

Iconoclast

Puritan Board Junior
I rarely post here, although I read the forums often and find them helpful. I have this question that I hope to get some help with. In the Dispensational scheme, would the primary nature of "Israel" be considered ethnic, political, religious, or something else? This is a question that I've posed to my Dispensational friends but with no real answer. In reading Dispensational articles, quite often authors use the political identity (State of Israel) and the ethnic identity (the Jews) interchangeably (and inconsistently), such as in this quote

“Only Dispensationalism clearly sees a distinctive future for ethnic Israel as a nation.” This future includes a restoration of the nation with a distinct identity and function.

When I press the issue, my Dispensational friends fall back to their claim that Israel is not the Church, and that certain promise made to Israel can not apply to the church. When it comes to determining what the true Israel actually IS, I can't get a clear definition. If it is ethnic, how pure must one's ethnicity be to receive the promises? If it is political, would the promises apply to all citizens of the State of Israel alike, regardless of ethnicity? I hope I'm not tilting at windmills; any help would be appreciated.

I'll go back to lurking now...:tombstone:

Timothy,
I believe that someone who remains in the grasp of dispensational thought
cannot understand Isa49:
1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.

5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

8Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

9That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.

10They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

11And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.

12Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.

13Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

14But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.

15Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

16Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
This passage is among several that link God's people from all time in the One , Jesus the True Israel. A dispensational person has the same wrong view of this passage as the unbelieving jewish person still does.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top