Dealing With Calvinists, and a Strange Closing Prayer
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charliejunfan
Puritan Board Senior
WOW! I guess we believe that one has to be a Calvinist to be saved, I wasn't aware that I thought this until I watched this video
Ivan
Pastor
WOW! I guess we believe that one has to be a Calvinist to be saved, I wasn't aware that I thought this until I watched this video
LOL We'll now we know something about ourselves that we didn't know before!
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
He prays that no one would fall into the ditch of Calvinism nor Arminianism.
Why do so many Arminians deny that they are Arminians while using the same arguments as Arminians? I would dare say that classical Arminians probably had a better hold on the nature of original sin than do many of the contemporary variety.
Why do so many Arminians deny that they are Arminians while using the same arguments as Arminians? I would dare say that classical Arminians probably had a better hold on the nature of original sin than do many of the contemporary variety.
Ivan
Pastor
CharlieJ
Puritan Board Junior
Well, many are right about declining the term Arminian. Calvinists have an annoying tendency to describe all conflicting ideas of the will as "Arminian," whether or not the appellation is accurate. Balthasar Hubmaier, an Anabaptist theologian, was anticipating many of the positions of modern evangelical theology before Arminius was born. Personally, I've stopped referring to most non-Calvinists as "Arminians" and instead call them "Semi-Pelagians," which is historically accurate.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
Good point. However, aren't semi-Pelagianism and Arminianism technically different from one another at some point along the spectrum?
Semi-Pelagianism teaches that man can come to Christ without God taking the initiative to draw him. Arminianism teaches that a person cannot come to Christ unless God takes the initiative to draw him. Arminianism teaches that the drawing of God is a necessary condition for man to come to Christ, but not a sufficient condition. In their view, the drawing of God does not guarantee that anyone will come to Christ. They believe that the drawing of God merely makes the person capable of coming to Christ.
charliejunfan
Puritan Board Senior
I like to call them synergists because whether one is an arminian or a pelagian they are still synergistic in their theology
Confessor
Puritan Board Senior
I do not think there is a cogent distinction to be made between semi-Pelagianism and Arminianism.
http://www.puritanboard.com/f48/worthless-distinction-between-arminianism-semi-pelagianism-51447/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f48/worthless-distinction-between-arminianism-semi-pelagianism-51447/
Michael Doyle
Puritan Board Junior
I thought it funny that this is on their "what we believe" portion of their website:
Followed by salvation is solely by God alone through grace alone...
Followed by salvation is solely by God alone through grace alone...
CharlieJ
Puritan Board Junior
Right. They are different. That's why I say semi-Pelagian instead of Arminian. The suggestions of "synergism" and "free-willers" are also very good, since they strike at the problem. Arminianism is a historically identifiable system of doctrine (not without variation), just like Calvinism. The belief in unconditional election, for example, does not make someone a Calvinist. Unconditional election is a belief shared by Augustine, Aquinas, Bradwardine, Wyclif, Hus, Gregory of Rimini, Staupitz, and (I think) Pascal. That does not make them Calvinists. In the same way, we shouldn't call people Arminians unless they buy the whole system. It's both offensive and inaccurate.
Ben, as a monergist, I agree with the main point of your post. On the other hand, there is usefulness in keeping the ideas distinct. From a Christian perspective, one can say that there are only two religions, God's (Christianity) and the Devil's (everything else). Even though that is true, it doesn't justify us calling Catholics Muslims or atheists Buddhists. There are distinct incarnations of error, and a Semi-Pelagian like Gabriel Biel arrives at and articulates his position quite differently than an Arminian like Wesley.
Just1covenanter
Puritan Board Freshman
My favorite part, after his puzzling assertion that failing to adopt a Calvinistic theology results in a failure to "persevere in the faith," leaving them unregenerate and damned, is this one: "See, now we have a place in our understanding of the Bible for people to be saved and doctrinally screwed-up. But, I don't know that they really do."
I can say that after three full years of seminary, this is news to me. I've never heard my professors deal anything but humbly and charitably with, ahem, non-Calvinists. I've always thought of them as slightly theologically off-center brothers in Christ, and so do most Calvinists I know.
I can say that after three full years of seminary, this is news to me. I've never heard my professors deal anything but humbly and charitably with, ahem, non-Calvinists. I've always thought of them as slightly theologically off-center brothers in Christ, and so do most Calvinists I know.
SolaSaint
Puritan Board Sophomore
I loved the part where he was stating how Calvinism is growing today with the likes of R C Sproul, John MacArthur and John Piper. Isn't it funny how he named (in my opinion) the three best expositors of scripture we have today. I felt like he was mentioning the likes of Joel Osteen, T D Jakes and Benny Hinn as we would consider false teaching today. I really started laughing, but I guess we should pray for this guy and the people he is corrupting.
Just1covenanter
Puritan Board Freshman
God grant that we might converse with our opponents like this:
A 250-yr-old Model: How Calvinist Simeon Related to Wesley :: Desiring God
A 250-yr-old Model: How Calvinist Simeon Related to Wesley :: Desiring God
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