"Dare To Be A Daniel" REALLY?? REALLY??

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N. Eshelman

Puritan Board Senior
Today I was perusing the Trinity Hymnal (Blue, 1961) looking for a selection of the 44th Psalm (does anyone know if one's in there?). As I perused, I came across the hymn, "Dare to Be a Daniel."

My question: Do people really sing that song in worship? All hail Daniel's band?

What??

Are you serious?

Can someone explain how the central message of this song is appropriate for Christian worship? I know that I am a psalm singer, but even if I was a hymn singer, I think that I would have a difficult time singing this song, even though it's out of a very orthodox hymnal.


Standing by a purpose true,
Heeding God's command,
Honor them, the faithful few!
All hail to Daniel's band!

Refrain

Dare to be a Daniel,
Dare to stand alone!
Dare to have a purpose firm!
Dare to make it known.

Many mighty men are lost
Daring not to stand,
Who for God had been a host
By joining Daniel's band.

Refrain

Many giants, great and tall,
Stalking through the land,
Headlong to the earth would fall,
If met by Daniel's band.

Refrain

Hold the Gospel banner high!
On to vict'ry grand!
Satan and his hosts defy,
And shout for Daniel's band.

Refrain
 

Rich Koster

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I think "the band" might be referring to his fellow captives who refused to participate in idolatry, not a musical group.
 

jennywigg

Puritan Board Freshman
The song makes me uncomfortable, too, but can someone help me articulate why? I'd love to be able to explain it to Beth Moore-lovers, for example, but I don't know if I could. (I used to love Beth Moore studies, by the way.) In other words, could someone be my brain this afternoon? :um:
 

Philip

Puritan Board Graduate
19th-century revivalism dies hard, apparently.

I've never heard this one sung by a reformed congregation---I think for a reason.
 

N. Eshelman

Puritan Board Senior
19th-century revivalism dies hard, apparently.

I've never heard this one sung by a reformed congregation---I think for a reason.

Well, it may not be sung by a reformed congregation, but it was approved by a General Assembly of a reformed denomination. It seems that Robley Johnston, Arthur Kuschke Jr, LeRoy Oliver, EJ Young, and Robert Marsden (Committee members) thought that it was appropriate!
 

a mere housewife

Not your cup of tea
Jennifer, just one thought is that it seems to sing the praises of Daniel and his 'band', rather than those of God. It also just seems sort of emptily moralistic to me, which may tie into the first thing.
 

au5t1n

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Oddly enough, I've found the more I've sung the psalms and been in a psalm-singing church, the more other hymns (even Reformed favorites) start to look like "Dare to be a Daniel" to me. A strange by-product of exposure to psalmody, I guess.
 

Skyler

Puritan Board Graduate
So you guys don't recognize in church people who are willing to stand up for the cause of Christ? Because where I come from, we hear a lot about missionaries and preachers and great men of faith.

I think it's dangerous, if not downright unbiblical, to withhold praise from people who have done something praiseworthy. It's not talking about worshipping Daniel's band.

Am I missing the point here?
 

"William The Baptist"

Puritan Board Freshman
So you guys don't recognize in church people who are willing to stand up for the cause of Christ? Because where I come from, we hear a lot about missionaries and preachers and great men of faith.

I think it's dangerous, if not downright unbiblical, to withhold praise from people who have done something praiseworthy. It's not talking about worshipping Daniel's band.

Am I missing the point here?

It seems needless; why not simply imitate Christ?-instead of daring to be like Daniel. (Good alliteration though! :up:)

Going by that line of reasoning, let's add a hymn about Pergy, or Livingstone, or William Carey, or... :)
 

AThornquist

Puritan Board Doctor
Haha! Dare to be a Daniel... I seriously would feel awkward singing that in church. It wouldn't be so bad if I brought a sock puppet and he took responsibility for the singing though.


Going by that line of reasoning, let's add a hymn about Pergy, or Livingstone, or William Carey, or...

There are loads of godly examples of credobaptists and paedobaptists, but Pergy even qualifies as a papedabaptist! (And this is a reference to his place of service, and thus might need explanation...)
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
So you guys don't recognize in church people who are willing to stand up for the cause of Christ? Because where I come from, we hear a lot about missionaries and preachers and great men of faith.

I think it's dangerous, if not downright unbiblical, to withhold praise from people who have done something praiseworthy. It's not talking about worshipping Daniel's band.

Am I missing the point here?

It seems needless; why not simply imitate Christ?-instead of daring to be like Daniel. (Good alliteration though! :up:)

Going by that line of reasoning, let's add a hymn about Pergy, or Livingstone, or William Carey, or... :)


Leah, I am working on that Pergy hym now, but I am having trouble ryming "hillbilly" and "incessant jungle diarrhea" with anything.

---------- Post added at 02:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------

But, I do believe Dare to be Daniel and other kid's Sunday School songs could rightly be assembled and taught in churches.

Many are great memory aids for children and if your church is not exclusive psalmodry then the criteria for acceptance would be songs that are theologically correct and edifying, even in non-inspired, and remembering Daniel and his friends can certainly be edifying. I see no reason for exclusion.
 

py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
Perhaps one of the committee members had fond memories of leaping from his chair as a child when they reached the line about standing.
 

JoannaV

Puritan Board Sophomore
There are loads of godly examples of credobaptists and paedobaptists, but Pergy even qualifies as a papedabaptist! (And this is a reference to his place of service, and thus might need explanation...)

He baptises...food?

---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 PM ----------

But, I do believe Dare to be Daniel and other kid's Sunday School songs could rightly be assembled and taught in churches.

Many are great memory aids for children and if your church is not exclusive psalmodry then the criteria for acceptance would be songs that are theologically correct and edifying, even in non-inspired, and remembering Daniel and his friends can certainly be edifying. I see no reason for exclusion.

If one wants to sing a hymn about Daniel I am sure there are better songs. You could even write one yourself. Dare to be Daniel doesn't really seem to contain much theology or history. You know? And there isn't much content that, if memorised, would help one tell the story of Daniel.
 

satz

Puritan Board Senior
I really don't understand what is the problem with the hymn.

Imitating the faith and good works of those who have gone before us in the faith is a central message of the bible.


1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
 

DMcFadden

Puritanboard Commissioner
I really don't understand what is the problem with the hymn.

Imitating the faith and good works of those who have gone before us in the faith is a central message of the bible.


1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

I believe that the discomfort comes from the fact that so much broad evangelical homiletics tends towards the sappy moralizing of Biblical narratives. In haste to find an "application," many evangelical preachers will read the David and Goliath story as one of "fighting the Goliaths in your life" (e.g., anger, overeating, looking at naughty pictures on the internet, etc.). I heard a preacher reduce the David narrative into a list of "principles" on how to be a good friend like Jonathan.

Those most concerned about such preaching and hymnody stress the redemptive God centered theme of the Bible and the need to see Him (not David, Abraham, Moses, et. al.) as the hero of every Old Testament narrative.

Finneyesque revivalism is hopelessly semi-pelagian and man-centered and moralizing homiletics generally amounts to little more than man-centered psychologizing. Hence the wincing by the Reformed.

What is Nate complaining about, though? I attended his ordination and "seem to remember" our singing "Dare to Be a Daniel," "Father Abraham," "Shine Jesus Shine," "In the Garden," and "He Lives." :rofl:
 

Danny

Puritan Board Freshman
Dare to be a Daniel
Sound's pretty great to me... :lol:


---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 PM ----------

But seriously though, I find that these songs would be much better with a change of perspective. Instead of focusing on what these men did for God, they should focus on God working through them with the emphasis on the working of God and not men.

---------- Post added at 11:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 PM ----------

I really don't understand what is the problem with the hymn.

Imitating the faith and good works of those who have gone before us in the faith is a central message of the bible.


1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

I believe that the discomfort comes from the fact that so much broad evangelical homiletics tends towards the sappy moralizing of Biblical narratives. In haste to find an "application," many evangelical preachers will read the David and Goliath story as one of "fighting the Goliaths in your life" (e.g., anger, overeating, looking at naughty pictures on the internet, etc.). I heard a preacher reduce the David narrative into a list of "principles" on how to be a good friend like Jonathan.

Those most concerned about such preaching and hymnody stress the redemptive God centered theme of the Bible and the need to see Him (not David, Abraham, Moses, et. al.) as the hero of every Old Testament narrative.

Finneyesque revivalism is hopelessly semi-pelagian and man-centered and moralizing homiletics generally amounts to little more than man-centered psychologizing. Hence the wincing by the Reformed.

What is Nate complaining about, though? I attended his ordination and "seem to remember" our singing "Dare to Be a Daniel," "Father Abraham," "Shine Jesus Shine," "In the Garden," and "He Lives." :rofl:
I agree. I once heard someone say (I can't remember, I think it was Al Mohler, Michael Horton. Someone along those lines) that the reason many people want to pull the "practical" out of the Bible and leave the doctine is because they want the law. That is, they feel they need things to do in order to earn God's favor instead of relying upon God's favor imparted to us through Christ.
 
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Jack K

Puritan Board Professor
"Dare to be a Daniel." Oh, for the longest time I hated that song. I wrote it off as moralistic and missing God and the gospel. But as I've studied the book of Daniel more, I've come to admit that one of the points of the book actually is to encourage God's people to take the sort of stand Daniel did. So I guess the song sorta gets that right, partly. It still feels to me like it'd be out of place in a worship service, though, and given the choice I'd rather sing about God.
 

py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
It might be more to the point to sing a motet based on "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil."
 

bshpmark

Puritan Board Freshman
If Hebrews 11 lists several people that were people of faith and the idea is that we should emulate these people in our own journey, it certainly is not wrong to honor any of God's elect who have stood fast for the faith, especially those who have given their lives for it.
 

J. Dean

Puritan Board Junior
I would call this song a good moral song about somebody of godly chracter, but not a hymn.

Is it a bad song? No. But since it's not primarily about God, I wouldn't deem it appropriate for Sunday worship.
 
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