Christopher
Puritan Board Freshman
What is cursing or cussing? What constitutes foul language? should it ever be used? Should pastors ever use it even in the mildest way?
Cursing
- Thread starter Christopher
- Start date
- Status
Ianterrell
Puritan Board Sophomore
Christopher,
Good question. There is no verse that uses the modern phrase "curse word" but the equivilent in the Bible is something like foul language. Most of what qualifies as foul language today doesn't match up with the biblical standards. Foul language in Paul's writings is lumped in foul humor. With that connection made, I understand foul language to include graphically offensive speech, speech that is truly crass, and speech that describes things that should not be described.
I do not think that it words that describe, well, fecal matter. Or words that describe the butt. I don't think those things should necessarily be discussed over dinner, but if we're going to disagree with my definition then I think we are required to feel that Paul went to far when he said he considered all things "dung" compared to knowing Christ. What are the modern equivilents of that word?
I don't think its morally wrong then to use that equivilent. In fact most of what passes for foul language in today's standards are just plain ludicrous and pretentious. I find it particularly offensive that these same individuals usually have deep problems with these innocuous "curse words" and yet blaspheme the Lord's name like there's no tomorrow!
Good question. There is no verse that uses the modern phrase "curse word" but the equivilent in the Bible is something like foul language. Most of what qualifies as foul language today doesn't match up with the biblical standards. Foul language in Paul's writings is lumped in foul humor. With that connection made, I understand foul language to include graphically offensive speech, speech that is truly crass, and speech that describes things that should not be described.
I do not think that it words that describe, well, fecal matter. Or words that describe the butt. I don't think those things should necessarily be discussed over dinner, but if we're going to disagree with my definition then I think we are required to feel that Paul went to far when he said he considered all things "dung" compared to knowing Christ. What are the modern equivilents of that word?
I don't think its morally wrong then to use that equivilent. In fact most of what passes for foul language in today's standards are just plain ludicrous and pretentious. I find it particularly offensive that these same individuals usually have deep problems with these innocuous "curse words" and yet blaspheme the Lord's name like there's no tomorrow!
Ian,
I tend to agree with you...however, the appearance of evil strikes me as unavoidable if I were to use certain words describing the derier (sp?), or describing what gives the "dairy air" that pungent smell (i.e. the other word for fecal matter).
If our culture was changed, I could use those words without fear...unfortunately, as it is....the world finds "curse" words more foul than sexual innuendo (and lets be honest, the world has skipped the double entendre and has mastered the single entendre) is okay for anyone to hear and say.
Basically, I don't want to world to be able to say, "Craig, that 'Christian', likes to say @@@ or *@*@ when the occasion calls for it, therefore he's a hypocrite and Christianity is too".
You know what I mean? Maybe someone has more insight. I for one am sick of "soaped up" Christianity. I would like to sound more like Luther and the other more earthy (though not earthly) Reformers.
[edited for foul language]
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
I tend to agree with you...however, the appearance of evil strikes me as unavoidable if I were to use certain words describing the derier (sp?), or describing what gives the "dairy air" that pungent smell (i.e. the other word for fecal matter).
If our culture was changed, I could use those words without fear...unfortunately, as it is....the world finds "curse" words more foul than sexual innuendo (and lets be honest, the world has skipped the double entendre and has mastered the single entendre) is okay for anyone to hear and say.
Basically, I don't want to world to be able to say, "Craig, that 'Christian', likes to say @@@ or *@*@ when the occasion calls for it, therefore he's a hypocrite and Christianity is too".
You know what I mean? Maybe someone has more insight. I for one am sick of "soaped up" Christianity. I would like to sound more like Luther and the other more earthy (though not earthly) Reformers.
[edited for foul language]
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
[quote:df3714bf46]Basically, I don't want to world to be able to say, "Craig, that 'Christian', likes to say @@@ or *@*@ when the occasion calls for it, therefore he's a hypocrite and Christianity is too".
You know what I mean? Maybe someone has more insight. I for one am sick of "soaped up" Christianity. I would like to sound more like Luther and the other more earthy (though not earthly) Reformers.[/quote:df3714bf46]
Luther cursed at the devil quite a bit. And of course, he was rather fond of words that got people's attention. I don't know if anybody said this already, but it depends on your [b:df3714bf46]intent[/b:df3714bf46]. I started using foul language the other day while I was alone, just to test my liberty. There is nothing wrong with even the most obsene words: *%@$ etc. Words are made up. But they carry strong messages. If the the meaning of those words were actually in our hearts, then that is not a good thing.
Paul
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by rembrandt]
[edited for foul language]
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
You know what I mean? Maybe someone has more insight. I for one am sick of "soaped up" Christianity. I would like to sound more like Luther and the other more earthy (though not earthly) Reformers.[/quote:df3714bf46]
Luther cursed at the devil quite a bit. And of course, he was rather fond of words that got people's attention. I don't know if anybody said this already, but it depends on your [b:df3714bf46]intent[/b:df3714bf46]. I started using foul language the other day while I was alone, just to test my liberty. There is nothing wrong with even the most obsene words: *%@$ etc. Words are made up. But they carry strong messages. If the the meaning of those words were actually in our hearts, then that is not a good thing.
Paul
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by rembrandt]
[edited for foul language]
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
[b:1ddccde1a4]Matthew 12
34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."[/b:1ddccde1a4]
Paul
34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."[/b:1ddccde1a4]
Paul
cupotea
Puritan Board Junior
[quote:148733283e][i:148733283e]Originally posted by rembrandt[/i:148733283e]
[quote:148733283e]Basically, I don't want to world to be able to say, "Craig, that 'Christian', likes to say @@@ or #$*@ when the occasion calls for it, therefore he's a hypocrite and Christianity is too".
You know what I mean? Maybe someone has more insight. I for one am sick of "soaped up" Christianity. I would like to sound more like Luther and the other more earthy (though not earthly) Reformers.[/quote:148733283e]
Luther cursed at the devil quite a bit. And of course, he was rather fond of words that got people's attention. I don't know if anybody said this already, but it depends on your [b:148733283e]intent[/b:148733283e]. I started using foul language the other day while I was alone, just to test my liberty. There is nothing wrong with even the most obsene words: @#$% etc. Words are made up. But they carry strong messages. If the the meaning of those words were actually in our hearts, then that is not a good thing.
Paul
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by rembrandt] [/quote:148733283e]
Paul,
How would you feel if you had say a 6 year old son or daughter using the most filthiest language you can imagine?
When you confront them that they shouldn't talk that way, they reply, but you and momma say those things.
Our words, speech should be used to edify and to honor and glorify the Lord. When Christians pattern their speech habits after the rudiments and culture of those who are lost, there is a problem.
The test should be, does it edify, honor or glorify the Lord. Does your speech affect the way your children learn to speak?
When the Lord called me out of the world into his fold, that was the first thing that was cleaned up. Although I still have temptations, praise God, I have victory over my tongue through Jesus Christ.
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever]
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
[quote:148733283e]Basically, I don't want to world to be able to say, "Craig, that 'Christian', likes to say @@@ or #$*@ when the occasion calls for it, therefore he's a hypocrite and Christianity is too".
You know what I mean? Maybe someone has more insight. I for one am sick of "soaped up" Christianity. I would like to sound more like Luther and the other more earthy (though not earthly) Reformers.[/quote:148733283e]
Luther cursed at the devil quite a bit. And of course, he was rather fond of words that got people's attention. I don't know if anybody said this already, but it depends on your [b:148733283e]intent[/b:148733283e]. I started using foul language the other day while I was alone, just to test my liberty. There is nothing wrong with even the most obsene words: @#$% etc. Words are made up. But they carry strong messages. If the the meaning of those words were actually in our hearts, then that is not a good thing.
Paul
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by rembrandt] [/quote:148733283e]
Paul,
How would you feel if you had say a 6 year old son or daughter using the most filthiest language you can imagine?
When you confront them that they shouldn't talk that way, they reply, but you and momma say those things.
Our words, speech should be used to edify and to honor and glorify the Lord. When Christians pattern their speech habits after the rudiments and culture of those who are lost, there is a problem.
The test should be, does it edify, honor or glorify the Lord. Does your speech affect the way your children learn to speak?
When the Lord called me out of the world into his fold, that was the first thing that was cleaned up. Although I still have temptations, praise God, I have victory over my tongue through Jesus Christ.
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever]
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
Rembrandt-
Jesus was condemning evil....not cursing. Ian has already done a decent job of clarifying on what is biblical "cursing", vs crass speak.
I would say you have sinned if you have dropped the "F" bomb. That is word entailing explicit sex and isn't something a Christian should be using. Yes, I know people don't necessarily mean that when they say it; but that is what it means. If you could simply "intend" a different meaning when saying anything, communication would be impossible as you can't assume a basis for knowing...that's an epistemological bunny trail.
The "F" word would be an [b:09e5f16cc4]earthly[/b:09e5f16cc4] word as opposed to [i:09e5f16cc4]earthy[/i:09e5f16cc4].
Also keep in mind the fact we must avoid the appearance of evil. I think the "F" word is a legitamate word to avoid even if it wasn't evil in meaning. How would you respond to a call to repentance from a preacher telling people that they "need to leave behind their filthing, *@*@*@* sins and trust in Christ"? That, my friend, is a mouth that speaks praising in one breath [i:09e5f16cc4]and cursing[/i:09e5f16cc4] in another...what does James say of this?
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
Jesus was condemning evil....not cursing. Ian has already done a decent job of clarifying on what is biblical "cursing", vs crass speak.
I would say you have sinned if you have dropped the "F" bomb. That is word entailing explicit sex and isn't something a Christian should be using. Yes, I know people don't necessarily mean that when they say it; but that is what it means. If you could simply "intend" a different meaning when saying anything, communication would be impossible as you can't assume a basis for knowing...that's an epistemological bunny trail.
The "F" word would be an [b:09e5f16cc4]earthly[/b:09e5f16cc4] word as opposed to [i:09e5f16cc4]earthy[/i:09e5f16cc4].
Also keep in mind the fact we must avoid the appearance of evil. I think the "F" word is a legitamate word to avoid even if it wasn't evil in meaning. How would you respond to a call to repentance from a preacher telling people that they "need to leave behind their filthing, *@*@*@* sins and trust in Christ"? That, my friend, is a mouth that speaks praising in one breath [i:09e5f16cc4]and cursing[/i:09e5f16cc4] in another...what does James say of this?
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
My dad had a sign in his that said "Profanity is the sign of a weak mind trying to express itself forcefully."
Why must we stoop to use "common" speech to desribe how we feel, when there is a whole dictionary of better choices. I find that the more good literature I read the better my speech becomes.
Would I condemn Pastor who "cusses", it depends on the context and wether or not it was a regular thing. If ever did it in public, or the pulpit, I would definitly call him on the carpet, Now when you hit your finger with a hammer and don't yell @!*%# you are a better man than I.
Why must we stoop to use "common" speech to desribe how we feel, when there is a whole dictionary of better choices. I find that the more good literature I read the better my speech becomes.
Would I condemn Pastor who "cusses", it depends on the context and wether or not it was a regular thing. If ever did it in public, or the pulpit, I would definitly call him on the carpet, Now when you hit your finger with a hammer and don't yell @!*%# you are a better man than I.
On the Bible quote, I was only trying to highlight that man speaks from his heart. Which is also in several other verses.
Most of what ya'll said were appeals to cultural relevancy. Which is very valid, I think. I realize that it is kind of hard to use a word without its meaning always being latched to it.
If a foreigner started speaking curse words and they thought they were asking "where is the bathroom", it would not be bad in any way. If a six year old does that, it is still not bad if he doesn't know what he is saying. But of course, because of how we understand those words, you wouldn't want him saying that.
If I were to say *&%^ just to produce the syllabals, I do not believe it would be sin. I know that no one ever really does that, so what I am saying doesn't carry much weight.
I agree with what ya'll said though. We are humans and we associate words with things and we speak with intents.
Paul
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
Most of what ya'll said were appeals to cultural relevancy. Which is very valid, I think. I realize that it is kind of hard to use a word without its meaning always being latched to it.
If a foreigner started speaking curse words and they thought they were asking "where is the bathroom", it would not be bad in any way. If a six year old does that, it is still not bad if he doesn't know what he is saying. But of course, because of how we understand those words, you wouldn't want him saying that.
If I were to say *&%^ just to produce the syllabals, I do not believe it would be sin. I know that no one ever really does that, so what I am saying doesn't carry much weight.
I agree with what ya'll said though. We are humans and we associate words with things and we speak with intents.
Paul
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
alwaysreforming
Puritan Board Sophomore
If you want to know what is truly a "cuss word" then maybe asking the question, "If I was in the presence of Jesus, would I say this word?" may be a valid test.
I personally, say "hell", "damn", and "crap".
If I were to use any word stronger than these, even if I was alone, I would feel very "unsanctified" and feel that I had sinned. Some of my Christian friends get on me even for saying my 3, and I don't think I should say them either, but hey, that's where I'm at in my sinful flesh! ...Still workin' on my sanctification!
A few weeks ago I kept getting shocked over and over, and finally my car shocked me REALLY bad and I let go of an "F"-bomb! I felt kind of bad, but under the circumstances I couldn't do anything but.
One word which a Christian should NEVER use under ANY circumstances would be the racially-charged "N" word. If I heard anyone say that word, especially a Christian, I would be angered big time! And of course, we should never use the Lord's name associated with a cuss word! In Italy, they say Porko D_o!, which is putting the name "Pig" in front of God. Unbelievable, huh?
I personally, say "hell", "damn", and "crap".
If I were to use any word stronger than these, even if I was alone, I would feel very "unsanctified"
and feel that I had sinned. Some of my Christian friends get on me even for saying my 3, and I don't think I should say them either, but hey, that's where I'm at in my sinful flesh! ...Still workin' on my sanctification! A few weeks ago I kept getting shocked over and over, and finally my car shocked me REALLY bad and I let go of an "F"-bomb! I felt kind of bad, but under the circumstances I couldn't do anything but.
One word which a Christian should NEVER use under ANY circumstances would be the racially-charged "N" word. If I heard anyone say that word, especially a Christian, I would be angered big time! And of course, we should never use the Lord's name associated with a cuss word! In Italy, they say Porko D_o!, which is putting the name "Pig" in front of God. Unbelievable, huh?
alwaysreforming
Puritan Board Sophomore
Whoops! I forgot to answer the question: "Should pastors ever use it, even in the mildest way?"
Answer: No.
If other Christians use mild curse words, I don't get my feathers raised about it. If the world uses it, I expect it. But a pastor using it? He should REALLY try not to, under any circumstances, public, private, or otherwise.
Answer: No.
If other Christians use mild curse words, I don't get my feathers raised about it. If the world uses it, I expect it. But a pastor using it? He should REALLY try not to, under any circumstances, public, private, or otherwise.
Authorised
Puritan Board Freshman
[quote:96748080dc]
"need to leave behind their filthing, *&^%$# sins and trust in Christ"?
[/quote:96748080dc]
I would pay to see the reaction of the congregation!
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
"need to leave behind their filthing, *&^%$# sins and trust in Christ"?
[/quote:96748080dc]
I would pay to see the reaction of the congregation!
[Edited on 5-31-04 by pastorway]
Go to http://bible.gospelcom.net and do a search for "speech."
Our speech is to reflect the truth about Who it is that we belong to.
We are to let no corrupt communication proceed out of our mouths. None at all (Eph 4:29).
Language must be studied and understood historically and culturally. Words that we consider "cuss" words are usually labelled as profane or vulgar in the dictionary. They are profane and vulgar as a result of the origin and usage.
These words, and any others that might cause offense, should be avoided at all cost by the believer, especially by pastors!
Consider this, it is not the language itself that is the root issue - for what is in the heart comes out of the mouth, and that is what Jesus says defiles a man (Matt 15:11
) ! If your language is wrong, so is your heart!!!
Phillip
Our speech is to reflect the truth about Who it is that we belong to.
We are to let no corrupt communication proceed out of our mouths. None at all (Eph 4:29).
Language must be studied and understood historically and culturally. Words that we consider "cuss" words are usually labelled as profane or vulgar in the dictionary. They are profane and vulgar as a result of the origin and usage.
These words, and any others that might cause offense, should be avoided at all cost by the believer, especially by pastors!
Consider this, it is not the language itself that is the root issue - for what is in the heart comes out of the mouth, and that is what Jesus says defiles a man (Matt 15:11
) ! If your language is wrong, so is your heart!!!
Phillip
- Status
