Critical theory, politics and religion

Discussion in 'Theological Forum' started by A.Joseph, May 14, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    (Discussion on Social Justice using clips from a talk at Reformed seminary by Dr. Mika Edmondson, an OPC minister, as discussion starters.)
    ^ ^ ^
    This is interesting - near the end during the coverage of the q&a portion I believe a student asks about using a theonomous context to promote social justice in the church which I perceive morphed into a concern of a promotion of a type of non orthodox form of theonomy in the present which probably more closely resembles a liberation theology inspired society

    I’m not even sure the identity politics style seduction of critical theory as employed by the Democrats is in any way beneficial to black Americans, they sure have a lot of competition for implied oppression including illegal immigrants (and lgbt) as far as today’s Democratic Party is concerned. I think the church should be inclusive while maintaining its biblical standards. I don’t think that will be good enough for those who want to overthrow the established order and want to flip the church in their effort to do so. (If the overthrow would include the lgbt and pro abortion lobby it would at least look a little more appealing)

    “Men or nations who think they can revive the Faith in order to make a good society might just as well think they can use the stairs of Heaven as a short cut to the nearest chemist's shop is quite easy to coax humans round this little corner.” -C.S. Lewis
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  2. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Attached Files:

  3. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    He’s elevating cultural embodiness. He is arguing black supremacy?, he is arguing special considerations. They were never not special in that they are created in God’s image. But I don’t expect the world to ever get that. They may use them for its own means, but he is promoting a heaven on earth social gospel or maybe a radical political agenda. Both will never occur. It will always be about the haves in our current day. The haves are merely shrinking to the very, very top of supremacy...
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  4. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

    I would be careful here, brother. Pastor Edmondson, aside from being a minister of the gospel in your and my own denomination (and is thus to be respected), is also a good friend of my pastor. Do not get me wrong, Pastor Edmondson is saying some very disturbing things that ought to cause concern, even great concern, but we should be very careful about accusing anyone, much less a minister, of anything so serious as advocating black supremacy unless we have some very hard and explicit evidence. I think that is the least the ninth commandment requires of us, especially given the WLC's exposition of it.
  5. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    Anyone can be fully accepted and affirmed in God’s household as a co-equal in Christ, in all their cultural embodiedness.

    I am curious what this means. Without other context, to me it seems like it is saying we can accept anyone as they are. Is that just an uncharitable reading with a sloppy tweet?
  6. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Maybe I’m commiting a genetic fallacy but if he’s down with liberation theology I’m pretty close. But I also feel the path he’s on is one based in extreme genetic fallacy
  7. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    What was wrong with the tweet he quoted in the first place?
  8. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Just to clarify, when I say black supremacy, I’m using a religious context. I would say dispensationalists promote a type of Jewish supremacy. Any placing of a cultural, national, ethnic group above individuals or the collective church is a promotion of ‘supremacy’, no? I’m not saying the man is a black nationalist, or the like. But being an opc minister does not provide cover, it leaves him open to greater scrutiny. I appreciate that he’s sensitive to minority issues but where is it truly coming from and where is he taking it?

    I’m not saying he believes white people are beyond saving, I just feel we don’t even register in his world. Makes me feel divided
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  9. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    As for his tweet on systematic sin, somebody responded that there are policy solutions for abortion, ssm, etc. They are easily defined and tackled. What is systematic racism? And what are the policy solutions?

    As for cultural emodiedness? What is that?
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  10. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    Nothing. I am not following what he is implying in his tweet in the portions I highlighted.
  11. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore


    So Carl Ellis’ tweet, was ok, pretty accurate and biblical .... and he’s a social justice guy.

    But it seems it didn’t go far enough for pastor Mika, who throws in cultural embodiness. He says accepted and affirmed in our cultural embodiness - this sounds very strange, how about cleansed of our sin? Sounds very heretical to me. How does it sound to you?
  12. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

    This is a helpful clarification. Thanks.

    I agree that being a minister does not exempt one from scrutiny, but that's not what I was saying. I was saying that his being a minister, especially one in the denomination you and I call home, means we need to take the ninth commandment with regard to him at least as seriously as with anyone else.

    Furthermore, I am not cautioning against scrutiny, but against false accusation. Those are two very different things.
  13. Johnathan Lee Allen

    Johnathan Lee Allen Puritan Board Freshman

    Mika says way more inflammatory things on Twitter than this. I think you could’ve proven your point with several other things than this.

    If we are going to stand on the Word of God and defend against false gospels, we need to be sound in our judgments. We can’t jump at things when, though they may be there, the evidence isn’t sufficient.

    Brother, I’m completely with you. I’m especially alarmed since he’s a capable voice coming from within our denomination. However, we need to afford grace where needed and sternness at other times. I hope for repentance. Let’s be robust in our charges lest we needlessly damage our case and harden them in rebellion.
  14. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Thanks, I’m dropping out of this discussion. I think I’ve made my point, and I appreciate the responses. I really have nothing more to say, peace!
  15. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Sorry, that was an accident. Not sure what TE is?

    I’m just gonna call these guys white guilt preachers. I’m very cynical and jaded. Am I living in an alternate universe or is orthodoxy being attacked from every which way? I expect this in outside politics, not from within the ranks.

    On intersectionality:
    This is where these people are coming from. Everything else is window dressing. This is really what they stand for:
    “It’s identity politics on steroids, where virtually every issue in American life can and must be filtered through the prisms of race, gender, sexual orientation, and gender identity.

    Intersectionality privileges experiential authority, with each distinct identity group able to speak conclusively and decisively only about their own experience. So when an issue impacts trans rights, the trans community takes the lead. The responsibility of the rest of the community is to act, then, as their “allies.” If a racial issue comes to the fore — for example, in the context of protests over police shootings — then African Americans take the lead, and LGBT or women’s groups come alongside in support.

    This is why you’ll often see activist organizations on the left tweet in support of people or causes that have little to do with the mission of the organization. When one part of the movement is threatened, the entire movement is threatened....

    For the in group, it’s easy to see the appeal of the philosophy. There’s an animating purpose — fighting injustice, racism, and inequality. There’s the original sin of “privilege.” There’s a conversion experience — becoming “woke.” And much as the Christian church puts a premium on each person’s finding his or her precise role in the body of Christ, intersectionality can provide a person with a specific purpose and role based on individual identity and experience....

    The angry activist often stokes the burning fires of intersectionality. And when commitment collides with confusion, commitment tends to win.

    Intersectionality steamrolls right over the lukewarm, leaving them converted or cowed. The answer, of course, isn’t to steamroll back — after all, our faith is supposed to be full of grace — but rather to respond with calm conviction. Christianity has survived ancient heresies. It can prevail against modern fads. But don’t for one moment underestimate the depth of the zeal that drives our latest religious divide.”
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
    • Amen Amen x 1
    • List
  16. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  17. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    Nothing in itself. The problem isn't that cultures are real and we are always embodied within a culture. That's true. The problem is when Wokists make hyphenated-Christians within the body of Christ, and then start making demands based on that hyphenation. It's Galatians 101.
  18. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Tweet Worthy!

    [QUOTE="BayouHuguenot, post: 1200729, member: 448"
  19. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Here’s another problem, some would see racism (or ageism) in an event such as this, like the Covington kids scenario. I just see wicked depravity. But if we keep stirring the pot things can surely take a greater turn for the worse. It doesn’t take much to stoke the flames in this fallen world... Just preach the gospel!

    This man died
  20. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

  21. Blueridge Believer

    Blueridge Believer Puritan Board Professor

    I can’t believe what I just watched. She should get the electric chair.
  22. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    What is thought provoking is what if it were a young white man pushing an old black woman out of the bus?
  23. Blueridge Believer

    Blueridge Believer Puritan Board Professor

    It would have been a 24/7 story for 6 months
  24. alexandermsmith

    alexandermsmith Puritan Board Sophomore

    Exactly. And the people on that bus did nothing. Shameful. There are many, many such examples that can be found of this sort of thing.

    Things are only going to get worse. When out in public never relax.
  25. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    So this will be the last thing I will say about Pastor Mika. His last tweet is very telling...
    I’m wondering if somebody has spoken to him? Unfortunately, this comment affirms where his heart lies. Anti-racism does not mean what we may think it means, and there lies his problem. I’m forced to wonder if people are purposely attending Reformed seminary for legitimacy with the intent of acting as a change agent? Why would you hold these views and be so indoctrinated and yet be drawn to Reformed theology to the extent that you seek a place in the ministry? It boggles my mind... why would you want to be a part of something you will seek to uproot and dismantle? Who goes in with such an objective?

    I’m sorry I have to speculate, but unless a fellow pastor would debate him in a public forum it is all we have. I have no more to say of the man unless somebody has anything to add. I will leave it in the capable hands of those in leadership positions
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  26. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    I would like a definition or example of a Christian being racist let alone ‘boldly racist.’ Who’s received discipline for being ‘antiracist’?

    Bradly Mason has publicly vilified godly and well reputed men with utterly no consequences. He’s so provocative as to provide instructions for reaching his denomination with complaints. Joel McDurmon has jumped the sjw shark it seems now retweeting Mason favorably.

    The whole thing stirs the same sentiments with me as it does with James White. I find the topics surrounding critical theory, intersectionality, wokism, and SJWs utterly unrewarding and even demoralizing. The only reason I follow these issues are due to their explosive and damaging nature. It’s like running through an expanding demolition zone with swinging wrecking balls. It’s Mario brothers that never ends. No victory is to be had because there is not even a moving target. There is no target at all with only flying things to dodge. Watching otherwise bright men get taken out by this garbage reminds me of NPP/FV 15 years ago except now the winds of culture are blowing this false doctrine into these men’s sails to lead folks unto shipwreck. Lord have mercy on His Church.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    • Amen Amen x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  27. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    That’s code for systematic racism - the motives are political and cultural. The church is just another means, a voting block...

    Maybe he was spoken to????
  28. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Oh my, how are these men pastors??? How could he promote such a thing?


    Sorry for the source, but this is alarming. ... why would he keep this name?

    “Anyabwile after wrestling with his faith came to reject Islam and embrace Christianity. However, even after having become a professional Christian minister, Anyabwile has kept his Black Nationalist Muslim name.”

    These agenda driven churches should be independent. Not part of a denomination with a rich Reformed tradition. This is not a black/white thing in the least....
    I would love more minorities and Islamic converting to the reformed Christian faith. But I would hope the conversion would include biblical priorities
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  29. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    So my final word is that I’m glad these men seek to make life better for their black brethren. I do believe that it is a reality that certain races and cultures have more adversity, no doubt. But isn’t it better if we simply don’t make it an issue? I’m more cognizant of the fact that it should not be an issue, if anything I go out of my way to make sure it is not. In some ways that is true progress. To understand the sensitivities and be more personally reflective on doing better than our forefathers in this area. But I’m not going to separate from my faith to look good in the eyes of the wokist... I’m no radical in a wordly sense. Jesus is the only true radical! If I’m perceived a radical may it be cause I’m truly with Him!
  30. terry43

    terry43 Puritan Board Freshman

    It would be on the national news .. all over the press ..racism at its finest .. When we walk into church we should be color blind, age blind culture blind.. there is no place in the body of Christ for any of this
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page