Carl Copsey
Puritan Board Freshman
In regards to the covenant theology position can someone show me in the Bible where the moral law is revealed as the moral law?
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My friend has made these comments. He says the burden of proof is on CT.For starters, see the proof texts from our confession:
WCF XIX.II
2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: (James 1:25, James 2:8, 10-12, Rom. 13:8-9, Deut. 5:32, Deut. 10:4, Exod. 34:1) the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man. (Matt. 22:37-40)
XIX.V
The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; (Rom. 13:8, 9, Eph. 6:2, 1 John 2:3-4, 7-8) and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. (James 2:10, 11) Neither doth Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation. (Matt. 5:17-19, James 2:8, Rom. 3:31)
2 things jump out at me that make it so I can’t accept this statementFor starters, see the proof texts from our confession:
WCF XIX.II
2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: (James 1:25, James 2:8, 10-12, Rom. 13:8-9, Deut. 5:32, Deut. 10:4, Exod. 34:1) the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man. (Matt. 22:37-40)
XIX.V
The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; (Rom. 13:8, 9, Eph. 6:2, 1 John 2:3-4, 7-8) and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. (James 2:10, 11) Neither doth Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation. (Matt. 5:17-19, James 2:8, Rom. 3:31)
Sorry, this is my friends argument.2 things jump out at me that make it so I can’t accept this statement
1. Assumes a pre-Sinaitic law. That’s nowhere mentioned in Genesis or elsewhere.
2. Sabbath command is clearly abrogated, so the whole construct falls apart
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2 things jump out at me that make it so I can’t accept this statement
1. Assumes a pre-Sinaitic law. That’s nowhere mentioned in Genesis or elsewhere.
2. Sabbath command is clearly abrogated, so the whole construct falls apart
Whew! For a minute there your time aboard was going to be cut short.Sorry, this is my friends argument.
What did Adam and Eve disobey? Not a law? Why was Cain held responsible for murder? What made people bad? Sure, it wasn't a Nationally covenanted law in the sense of Moses but, even Paul says that, at the time, Gentiles by nature do what the law requires at at least some of the time.2 things jump out at me that make it so I can’t accept this statement
1. Assumes a pre-Sinaitic law. That’s nowhere mentioned in Genesis or elsewhere.
2. Sabbath command is clearly abrogated, so the whole construct falls apart
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That's good. I profess to covenant theology....westminster confession.Whew! For a minute there your time aboard was going to be cut short.
Your friend sounds like some New Covenant Theology (NCT) adherent, a view that is forbidden at our site.
See also:
https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/how-dangerous-is-new-covenant-theology.94173/
That's very good. Thank you I appreciate that. At one point when we were having our discussion he brought up James chapter 2. Where James says that if one breaks part of the law he breaks all of the law.The Moral Law is expressed in the 10 Commandments. The law written in man's heart (Romans 2:14) is the natural law. The content of the natural law is the same as the Moral Law (10 Commandments), but the 10 Commandments made everything more clear when they were delivered. It was kind of like repainting something that had grown old and discolored. Originally, God wrote His Law in man's heart at creation (natural law), but with the fall this natural law, though not completely wiped out, suffered decay and corruption to a degree, in a similar way as did the image of God in man after the fall.
I'm not sure what he means by "where in the Bible the moral law is revealed as the moral law." There is no phrase "moral Law" in the bible if that's what he means (as there is no word for trinity). Does he mean where, if at all, in the Bible the Scripture itself sets apart the Moral Law from the ceremonial and judicial law? IE, are those categories actually biblical? Or is his question something else?
If that's his deal, you could start with where Jesus declared all foods clean. So here he declares some laws to no longer be binding in the new covenant. Which ones are no longer binding? Just Leviticus 11 food laws? If so, why? If other laws as well, which ones and how do we figure them out? Or you could go to Galatians 4, where Paul talks about OT ceremonial laws as bondage and urges in the strongest language possible for his hearers to not go back to the *pictures* when they now have the *reality*; same thing in Hebrews. Here, the NT itself is giving us categories; there are some OT laws that are no longer binding.
Thank you! As always, very insighful. By the way, I'm currently reading through your work on Ezekiel and Daniel. You have clarified the scriptures in such a way that is profound. I really really enjoy your clear expositions.We can't always fix our friends' errant theology. Sometimes all we can do is pray. At the same time, Jon has pointed us in the right direction. Ask him
1) whether there are some laws that God gave in the Old Testament that are for everybody in all times and places, such as laws against murder or bestiality?
2) whether God gave some laws to Israel at Mount Sinai whose specific form was unique to their situation, but which nonetheless had enduring significance in their principles (general equity)? For example parapets around the roofs of their houses or not harvesting to the edge of their fields.
3) whether some laws God gave to Israel have been fulfilled in Christ and it would be wrong for us to continue them, such as animal sacrifice?
If he says yes, then he is acknowledging the categories of moral, civil and ceremonial law, whatever he chooses to call them. At that point, we are then into discussing which categories particular laws fall into, such as the Sabbath. If not, it will help you to focus in on what specifically his issue is. Often, in my experience, people get hung up over the terminology, while being willing to agree that there are these distinct categories.
I also find that the general equity principle is important. Without it, we have OT laws that endure and laws that are abolished, with no obvious reason for distinguishing them. With it, we can acknowledge that all of the OT laws still have relevance for our behavior today, even when they don't bind us directly to the same behavior. The principle behind roof parapets is loving my neighbor, even if he is careless and clumsy. The same rationale lies behind GFI outlets in the bathroom, so that my clumsy neighbor (or family member) can't kill themselves when they drop their hairdryer into a full sink of water. All of God's holy law reveals something about his character that is of abiding relevance to his people but in differing ways.
Wow! Thank you. Very helpful!One other thing that may help. Within the law itself there is a setting apart the 10 Commandments in particular from the rest of the law. Check out Exodus 34:27-28; Deuteronomy 4:12-13; 9:9-11. Here it's clear that the *covenant* God was making at Sinai was connected in an intimate way--not just with the law in general, but the "ten words" in particular.
One way that the ceremonial and judicial laws have been described in days past (IE, by the puritans), which I find extremely helpful, and which connects them back with the moral law, is in this way: as the first 4 commandments have to do with love for God, and the ceremonial laws have to do with Israel's worship, the ceremonial laws are really an *appendix* to the first table of the law (the first 4 commands), as they further flesh out what love for God really looks like in their time and place.
The last 6 commandments have to do with love for neighbor, and seeing the judicial laws have to do with Israel's civil state, they are like an appendix to the last 6 commandments; they flesh out what it really looks like in their time and place to love their neighbor. So, both ceremonial and judicial laws are *rooted* in the 10 Commandments.
But while the moral law of the 10 Commandments is perpetually binding (see the NT letters where you can find reference to each of the 10 Commandments binding believers to keep them), the judicial and ceremonial laws were for a particular people (the jews) who lived in a particular time (before the coming of Christ) and therefore served a temporary purpose and are no longer binding.
Now, they DO contain permanent principles (as Iain pointed out); but the particular application has changed. Which is why Paul in 2 Corinthians 5 cites a phrase used in the OT for the death penalty but changes the application to excommunication; and why he cites an OT verse about muzzling an ox but changes the application to financially supporting gospel ministers. They still express permanent principles; but Paul doesn't apply them literally--he recognises they have a new application in the new covenant. Ask your friend if he's allowed in the new covenant to wear shirts made of both cotton and polyester; if so why?
Can you cite the Witsius source for me? I'd like to look into that a bit more. I'm hoping it is from his books on covenant theology that I already own.Summarizing Turretin, Witsius etc., the moral law (or 10 commandments) is distinctly found in scripture as follows:
1) They are written by the finger of God (Exodus 31:18 & Deuteronomy 9:10) to establish their permanence (as opposed to the law of the heart which was effaced by the fall).
2) The stone tablets upon which they are written are placed in the ark (Exodus 25:21, Deuteronomy 10:2,5), the place of God's presence.
3) They are rewritten after the rebellion indicating their continued importance place as a moral guide (Exodus 34:1ff).
4) They are republished or reiterated by Moses for another generation (Deuteronomy 5:6) and applied anew (vs. 15) in light of God's redemptive acts.
5) Like circumcision etc., they are identified as the covenant of God (Exodus 34:28) because these are central to our relationship with him.
6) They are numbered so that these are distinguished from all others (Exodus 34:28). Jesus summarized them as two for "on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
7) These are promised to be written in our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:10).
8) The moral law is upheld while, in the same breath, the ceremonial is abolished (Psalm 40:6-8; Hebrews 10:4-10).
9) They are cited and upheld by Jesus in critical times of his ministry and teaching.
10) They are upheld by the apostles by way of summary (Romans 13:8:-10, James 2:8-12) and in various places cite it as authoritative (Ephesians 6:1:ff, 1 John 5:21). Paul even tells us that the Gentiles know this law in their hearts (Romans 2:14-15) as is evident from biblical examples (Genesis 20:1ff.) and the history of man (pagan moralists).
- First commandment: "For it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only thou shalt thou serve." Luke 4:8
- Second commandment: "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Mark 7:7
- Third commandment: "he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
- Fourth commandment: "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath." Mark 2:27
- Fifth commandment: "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother" Matthew 15:4
- Sixth commandment: "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders…" Matthew 15:19
- Seventh commandment: "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery" Luke 16:18
- Eighth commandment: “Thou knowest the commandments... Do not steal" Luke 18:20
- Ninth commandment: “Ye are of your father the devil… he is a liar, and the father of it.:" John 8:44
- Tenth commandment: "Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." Luke 12:15
As to the relationship between the 10 commandments and Adam's knowledge of righteousness in the garden consider:
1) That marriage is a creation ordinance (Matthew 19:4-5).
2) As is the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-28).
3) Adam knew God and served him uprightly (Genesis 1&2 - 1st, 2nd and 3rd commandments).
4) There was no death and Adam was expected to uphold life (Genesis 2:16ff. - 6th commandment).
5) Adam knew his wife and was not ashamed (Genesis 2:25 - 7th commandment).
6) He was expected to keep himself from that which was not his (Genesis 2:17 - 8th commandment).
7) Adam was expected to believe God's word (Genesis 2:16ff. - the ninth commandment).
8) The whole law was violated by the breaking of the tenth commandment (Genesis 3:6 cf. Romans 7:7).
Wow, that is good. Thanks!I haven't found a better short work on the Scriptural three-fold division of the law of God than this paper.