Covenant of Grace

Your view of the components of the Covenant of Grace?

  • All POST-Fall Covenants

    Votes: 28 84.8%
  • Only the New Covenant established in the New Testament

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • All POST-Fall Covenants except the Mosaic (Mosaic republication of COW)

    Votes: 3 9.1%

  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .
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Grant

Puritan Board Senior
The major weakness I see in the article in the original post is the "covenant or grace or salvation as justification" throughout.

It is true that the only fruition that man may have with God is by His condescension but I think the breaking up of the Covenants and the notion that the CoG is not in place doesn't reckon with the issue of the corruption aspect of the Fall.

The Fall not only makes mankind guilty of Adam's sin but corrupt in his whole person (sinner) and utterly unable to obey God.

The necessity for another Mediator in Christ is not merely to deal with guilt but power over sin and death in the ultimate sense.

Before the Fall, Adam had a natural ability to not only believe God and have faith in Him but also to fulfill the commands of God.

After the Fall, mankind lost both the natural moral ability to obey God and is utterly hostile to Him.

If the COG is not operative and the COW is in place then dealing with man's guilt in Covenants before the Fall (because some aspects of Christ' redemption are worked backward) does not itself deal with the bondage to sin in which fallen humanity is incapable of obeying God's command.

The CoW is a relationship in Adam. Guilty, sinner, dead. To speak of a CoW as operative for God's people after the Fall is to say that dead people are justified. Abraham believed how? If Christ did not purchase His faith and His work did not free him from bondage to believe then he did so naturally?
Thanks, I never really thought about it that way, but that seems to make the whole argument (as it is put fourth in the linked OP article) Inconsistent.
 

Reformed Covenanter

Cancelled Commissioner
It is possible to hold that there was a republication of the covenant of works under Moses, without holding that the Mosaic administration was a covenant of works simpliciter. I believe that the Mosaic economy was an administration of the covenant of grace, but that the covenant of works was republished during the Mosaic administration for typological and pedagogical purposes. Until I came to this position, I could make no sense of various passages of scripture. Namely, Leviticus 18:5, Romans 10:5ff, Galatians 3 and 4.

The fact that republication is often argued for by people with whom I would have some serious disagreements on other matters is #NotAnArgument against recognising that it is the teaching of scripture. Moreover, it has the added bonus of serving as a bulwark against denials of the covenant of works by Shepherdites, Barthians, Federal Visionists, Rushdoonyites, and Hoeksemites (the latter two groups still affirm justification by faith alone, but that is a happy inconsistency as far as I am concerned).
 

Grant

Puritan Board Senior
It is possible to hold that there was a republication of the covenant of works under Moses, without holding that the Mosaic administration was a covenant of works simpliciter. I believe that the Mosaic economy was an administration of the covenant of grace, but that the covenant of works was republished during the Mosaic administration for typological and pedagogical purposes. Until I came to this position, I could make no sense of various passages of scripture. Namely, Leviticus 18:5, Romans 10:5ff, Galatians 3 and 4.

The fact that republication is often argued for by people with whom I would have some serious disagreements on other matters is #NotAnArgument against recognising that it is the teaching of scripture. Moreover, it has the added bonus of serving as a bulwark against denials of the covenant of works by Shepherdites, Barthians, Federal Visionists, Rushdoonyites, and Hoeksemites (the latter two groups still affirm justification by faith alone, but that is a happy inconsistency as far as I am concerned).
Thanks for sharing another perspective...as the republication brothers/sisters have been virtually silent, outside of the Poll, in this thread. Though I disagree with the republication position, I was first introduced to this view by R. Scott Clark's podcast, which was very informative.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
It is possible to hold that there was a republication of the covenant of works under Moses, without holding that the Mosaic administration was a covenant of works simpliciter. I believe that the Mosaic economy was an administration of the covenant of grace, but that the covenant of works was republished during the Mosaic administration for typological and pedagogical purposes. Until I came to this position, I could make no sense of various passages of scripture. Namely, Leviticus 18:5, Romans 10:5ff, Galatians 3 and 4.

The fact that republication is often argued for by people with whom I would have some serious disagreements on other matters is #NotAnArgument against recognising that it is the teaching of scripture. Moreover, it has the added bonus of serving as a bulwark against denials of the covenant of works by Shepherdites, Barthians, Federal Visionists, Rushdoonyites, and Hoeksemites (the latter two groups still affirm justification by faith alone, but that is a happy inconsistency as far as I am concerned).
The Covenant of Grace was unconditional, but he Mosaic one seems to be limited and conditional, based up whether the party had been obedient to the laws and provisions of God given to them at that time.
 

Jonathan R

Puritan Board Freshman
The 1689 Federalism website used to have a video on "1689 Federalism" and another on "modern day Reformed Baptist theology" as a contrast. They appear to have removed the latter perhaps because of some debates within USA RB churches.

Strange, I hadn't noticed that it had been taken down. It isn't on YouTube anymore either. I did find this version of it on Vimeo:
 

Grant

Puritan Board Senior
The Covenant of Grace was unconditional, but he Mosaic one seems to be limited and conditional, based up whether the party had been obedient to the laws and provisions of God given to them at that time.
David, how would you reconcile this?

If that were true, and the Mosaic covenant was merely what you have defined it as, then all of the OT covenant community upon death went straight to hell... because no one has ever kept the law perfectly except for Christ .

Also remember that the new covenant has a condition and that is to repent and believe by grace alone and through faith alone in Christ alone.
 
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Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
David, how would you reconcile this?

If that were true, and the Mosaic covenant was merely what you have defined it as, then all of the OT covenant community upon death went straight to hell... because no one has ever kept the law perfectly except for Christ .

Also remember that the new covenant has a condition and that is to repent and believe by grace alone and through faith alone in Christ alone.
I see the salvation for all OT same as for any of us, but the Mosaic law given to israel to me was God promising physical/health blessings based upon obedience mainly.
 
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