JohnOwen007
Puritan Board Sophomore
Dear Matthew,
Thanks for your thoughts, they're great. I wonder, perhaps, if your explanation has gone just a little too far concerning past experience(s)?
Certainly Christ's experience is central. However, the words are since "you have been raised with Christ". There has to be some knowledge that the "you" has been united with Christ in the past. I might not be able to know when that actually happened, but I know is has happened, even if I don't feel like it in the present.
It's Calvin's idea of a "sure and certain knowledge of God's benevolence [...] in Christ" that then gives me the incentive to obey. We are no longer slaves to fear (Rom. 8:15).
Amen!
Yes, indeed!
I'm not sure I fully grasp what you're saying here. Paul's "experiences" in Phil. 3 concern his pre-conversion boastings, which he counts as rubbish.
At the beginning of Phil. 2 Paul actually points to past (subjective) experiences the Philippians have had, as an incentive for the present:
Phil 2:1 (NIV) If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.
Thanks for your thoughts, they're great. I wonder, perhaps, if your explanation has gone just a little too far concerning past experience(s)?
It would seem that if there is a past experience in these "positional aorists" the apostle uses, then it is the experience of the One for the many.
Certainly Christ's experience is central. However, the words are since "you have been raised with Christ". There has to be some knowledge that the "you" has been united with Christ in the past. I might not be able to know when that actually happened, but I know is has happened, even if I don't feel like it in the present.
It's Calvin's idea of a "sure and certain knowledge of God's benevolence [...] in Christ" that then gives me the incentive to obey. We are no longer slaves to fear (Rom. 8:15).
This leads us to see that salvation in Christ is a complete break with the past and the establishment of something altogether new. The beauty of this manner of speaking is the way in which it imperceptibly takes the focus off of oneself and places it upon what Christ has done.
Amen!
But there are also implications for the one who has come to identify himself with that definitive salvation -- imperative implications. The result is that the assurance of personal possession is always stated in terms of manifestation: IF this is true, THEN this will evidence itself. And it is noticeable that the evidence is always stated in terms of a process, and is never seen as a product.
Yes, indeed!
This indicates that intention is paramount and perfection itself is only a goal, not a present attainment. In Phil. 3, we have the apostles own "experimental" view of it, where two points become clear. (1.) His own experiences are dross and Christ is all. (2.) He does not consider himself as having already attained, but always presses towards the mark.
I'm not sure I fully grasp what you're saying here. Paul's "experiences" in Phil. 3 concern his pre-conversion boastings, which he counts as rubbish.
At the beginning of Phil. 2 Paul actually points to past (subjective) experiences the Philippians have had, as an incentive for the present:
Phil 2:1 (NIV) If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.