Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb...

[JBaldwin]

And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:9-14

So, I was reading Revelation 21 yesterday morning, and I suddenly noticed that it appeared that John is describing the "New Jerusalem" as the Bride (the Church). I had never noticed this before. Is the New Jerusalem the Church? If so, this changes a lot in my thinking.

Any thoughts?

 

[py3ak]

I think so. Nothing says that Revelation can only use one picture per concept: and certainly in other parts of the Bible the church is described in terms of architecture and in terms of matrimony. A bride is the best analogy for certain aspects of the church; a city is the best analogy for others; a body is the best analogy for yet others.

 

[JBaldwin]

Is this not the passage so many use to talk of heaven? The gated city, the streets of gold, etc. This changes everything in my mind and brings so many things into focus. It shows that our relationship with Christ is the focus of eternity (as of course other scriptures support). It solidifies my conviction that the heaven we hear about from the world is nothing like the heaven portrayed in Scripture.

 

[py3ak]

Yes, I think that is the source from which the golden streets and the cubical city (by some accounts, hovering over the earth like a Goa'uld mothership) are drawn. But Revelation (and the Psalms!) seem pretty clear that in actual fact the redeemed and glorified bodies of the elect take up space in the new earth.

 

[Skyler]

New series on TBN: Stargate Eschatology.

 

[Peairtach]

In my humble opinion Babylon in Revelation is the Church gone bad, and she is also presented as both a woman and a city.

and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,

This points to the Church's progressive realisation in history by Christ outpouring His Spirit of the ideal Church as well as her cleansing and completion at the end of time In my humble opinion.

The Bible repeatedly speaks of the Church as a Bride/Woman and as a City (usually "Jerusalem" or "Zion") e.g. Psalm 46.

In my humble opinion - and I may well be wrong because Revelation is a difficult book, and I don't think God wants to necessarily give us the equivalent of history before the time - Revelation 6 to Revelation 11 are primarily about the Destruction of the Old Jerusalem, although there are other themes in there and general principles apply to still future times and places.

Revelation corresponds somewhat to the Olivet Discourse in that it firstly deals with the Destruction of Jerusalem, but also anticipates the Second Advent.

Then you have the Woman in the Desert.

Then you have the Whore, because of secular (Beast from the Sea) and ecclesiatical (Beast from the Earth) and demonic (The Great Red Dragon) influence.

Statist persecution, ecclesiatical falsehood and error and persecution and apostate Christianity are still with us. Postmillennialism would anticipate great progress on these fronts before the end of history. E.g. Revelation 19.

Take all this with a slight or large pinch of salt.