johnny_redeemed
Puritan Board Freshman
Is this a true statement? If so could you support it biblicly, if not could you give biblical support?
Church replaced Israel?
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I would say that Israel was the church under age. For example Matt 21:43, notice that it is the same kingdom that was taken from the Jews and given to a nation bearing much fruit. Also Rom 11 illustration of the Olive tree shows that the has always been one people of God.
VanVos
VanVos
cupotea
Puritan Board Junior
johnny, no one says that the Church 'replaces' Israel.
We say that the Church IS Israel, it is the completion of and heir to ALL the messianic and eschatological promises made in the Old Covenant to national Israel.
If you view the covenant of redemption in a line, until Christ it was narrowly defined in terms of identification with a national entity, Israel, the children of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. With the coming of Christ, and especially in the preaching of Paul to the Gentiles, this covenant was expanded, opened up, blown open, in fact to include the Gentiles. It, the church, contains both Jews and Gentiles...
To say that the church replaces Israel is to tacitly accept that they are two different things; that before there was this thing, Israel and that now it has been replaced by this new thing, the church. No one says this...there aren't two different things, there is only one people of God called variously Israel or the Church.
The Reformers and many divines often referred to Israel, especially when she gathered for worship the church of the Old Testament. Likewise, the Church of the New Testament is called the true Israel of God.
Our charter is found all throughout Scripture but I would refer you especially to the first couple chapters of the epistle of Paul to the Ephesians.
We say that the Church IS Israel, it is the completion of and heir to ALL the messianic and eschatological promises made in the Old Covenant to national Israel.
If you view the covenant of redemption in a line, until Christ it was narrowly defined in terms of identification with a national entity, Israel, the children of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. With the coming of Christ, and especially in the preaching of Paul to the Gentiles, this covenant was expanded, opened up, blown open, in fact to include the Gentiles. It, the church, contains both Jews and Gentiles...
To say that the church replaces Israel is to tacitly accept that they are two different things; that before there was this thing, Israel and that now it has been replaced by this new thing, the church. No one says this...there aren't two different things, there is only one people of God called variously Israel or the Church.
The Reformers and many divines often referred to Israel, especially when she gathered for worship the church of the Old Testament. Likewise, the Church of the New Testament is called the true Israel of God.
Our charter is found all throughout Scripture but I would refer you especially to the first couple chapters of the epistle of Paul to the Ephesians.
Johnny,
This is a Moderator's note:
I want to advise you to delete the multiple threads on this topic (from back when the board was acting up, Saturday night). Do it before people add multiple posts to the same question in different places, of what is essentially the same thread (or it will be impossible to follow the flow). If you need help, just PM a Moderator or a Adminstrator.
Thanks.
This is a Moderator's note:
I want to advise you to delete the multiple threads on this topic (from back when the board was acting up, Saturday night). Do it before people add multiple posts to the same question in different places, of what is essentially the same thread (or it will be impossible to follow the flow). If you need help, just PM a Moderator or a Adminstrator.
Thanks.
johnny_redeemed
Puritan Board Freshman
I am not sure how to delete the post or PM. sorry
Extra threads deleted.
Johnny,
To delete a post (that is your own post), click on the "x" in the top right hand corner of the post.
To PM (private message), click on the " You have X new messages " at the top of the page. This will open up your "inbox" and allow you to send a PM to any poster.
Johnny,
To delete a post (that is your own post), click on the "x" in the top right hand corner of the post.
To PM (private message), click on the " You have X new messages " at the top of the page. This will open up your "inbox" and allow you to send a PM to any poster.
Me Died Blue
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Johnny, if you click on the thread, there should be an "X" button at the top-right of your post, next to the "quote" and "edit" buttons. Clicking that button will delete your post, and thus the entire thread if no one has yet responded.
To PM someone, click on the "PM" button with two people on it near the bottom of that person's signature.
To PM someone, click on the "PM" button with two people on it near the bottom of that person's signature.
johnny_redeemed
Puritan Board Freshman
I may be stupid, but I do not see a "X". All I have is a quote and edit button. And I do not see the post that I was supposed to delete. I think someone else might have done it???
johnny_redeemed
Puritan Board Freshman
Could we get back to the topic? I want to show my friend who is a dis. that God is done with national Israel. I am not sure how to word my question, but I think you know what I am asking. Could you help with Bible verse and clarification?
C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
Are you sure you understand what you are saying when you say "God is done with Israel?" Do you mean the physical nation in Palestine, or the spiritual body and covenant community? I think you may want to read through Romans 9-11 again.
Stephen in Acts 8 (in the Greek text) uses the word "church" for Moses and the Israelites. The continuity is stressed in what God is doing in Acts and what God was doing with the church in the OT. You have to make clear dilineations here.
Stephen in Acts 8 (in the Greek text) uses the word "church" for Moses and the Israelites. The continuity is stressed in what God is doing in Acts and what God was doing with the church in the OT. You have to make clear dilineations here.
johnny_redeemed
Puritan Board Freshman
I mean the physical nation in Palestine.
***Could we get back to the topic? I want to show my friend who is a dis. that God is done with national Israel. I am not sure how to word my question, but I think you know what I am asking. Could you help with Bible verse and clarification?***
Israel was married to God ,but because of her spiritual fornication, God divorced her.That divorce became final at the cross when the veil was torn.The temple was no longer holy.There was no more holy of holies.
" Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away".Isaiah 50:1
andreas.
[Edited on 24-10-2004 by andreas]
Israel was married to God ,but because of her spiritual fornication, God divorced her.That divorce became final at the cross when the veil was torn.The temple was no longer holy.There was no more holy of holies.
" Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away".Isaiah 50:1
andreas.
[Edited on 24-10-2004 by andreas]
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