Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel, and their Ignorance Fest on Calvinism (James White)

Discussion in 'Calvinism & The Doctrines of Grace' started by Blue Tick, Oct 6, 2009.

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  1. tlharvey7

    tlharvey7 Puritan Board Freshman

    i agree with this post... it has been my experience that CC PPL think they are the foremost authorities on scripture, that they have cornered the market on truth in scripture. i was even lead to believe that Chuck Smith invented expository preaching! so CC thinks they are the authority on that as well. even more sad was a lack of fellowship between CC's in a 50 mile radius. it's a very weird thing... i would never recomend one attend a calvary chapel.
    where are the elders in CC?
     
  2. JoyFullMom

    JoyFullMom Puritan Board Junior

    We went to a Calvary Chapel for a short time.

    We heard *seminary training* scoffed...because "all you need is God's Word and the Holy Spirit". My husband and I joked that we all needed WWCSD bracelets because we heard "Chuck Smith teaches" or "Chuck Smith says" about e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g.

    The pastor also led worship and wrote his own music. Every Sunday he proudly proclaimed that "we don't sing songs written by DEAD people". (Many of his songs were 7-11 songs, with long musical interludes....)

    Yes, he went chapter by chapter, verse by verse...but the explanations of scripture were ATROCIOUS! He actually spent more time yakking about his week. He DID rail against calvinism and then when people left over it, he gossiped from the pulpit about them. (no names of course ;) ) He told lots of stories about being *persecuted* for his faith here...but they were mostly *big and bad* stories that centered around him getting in someone's face.

    They had elders. We were young ourselves at the time...about 30. This guy that planted the church here came from CA and brought *his own elders*. He had been a youth leader and he brought a bunch of guys from his youth group, so all his *elders* were all young, single kids. (college age)

    There was another CC *also* recently planted by *another* couple from CA. There was no fellowship, but rather a competitive spirit. They *said* they sought fellowship, but there was none. Frankly, we visited that one too and it was no better.

    It was a short time for us. We left for MANY reasons...obviously. I'm quite shocked when I read favorable things about CC here. LOL! The bottom line was that my husband and I questioned him on some things he was saying in the pulpit, and he told us if we didn't like the way he preached, we could leave. So we did! :)

    -----Added 10/8/2009 at 08:27:02 EST-----

    Oh! Forgot! The *best* part was when we left, they sent a 19/20yo *elder* to visit *me* while my husband was at work, to tell *me* to talk to my husband and tell him what a terrible decision he had made for us by removing us from *biblical preaching*.

    I had to bite my tongue to keep from telling him to not let the door hit him on the behind as he left.
     
  3. Blue Tick

    Blue Tick Puritan Board Graduate


    Seems to be the pattern for many people leaving CC.
     
  4. Julio Martinez Jr

    Julio Martinez Jr Puritan Board Freshman

    JoyFullMom said,
    What? CC actually did home visits?
     
  5. tlharvey7

    tlharvey7 Puritan Board Freshman

    you guys must have been faithful tithers to warrant such a visit
     
  6. Julio Martinez Jr

    Julio Martinez Jr Puritan Board Freshman

    How true. I think they wanted to secure their investments. LOL. I can only imagine a dialog now:

    Calvary Chapel Elder: You can't leave. Tell you husband we will be in touch.
    Agents walk away as they put on their oakley shades
    Non-member Member: Sorry but we already left. Sorry for the trouble.
    CCE: We'll keep in touch.

    Resounds of the Matrix, doesn't it? I can almost see the surreal look on Morpheus' face.
     
  7. DMcFadden

    DMcFadden Puritan Board Doctor

    CC has been the entry point into Christianity for many (just as Billy Graham or Jack Hayford). I concur with all of the scare stories. They are indeed horrible. But, try to remember that these are brothers and sisters in Christ. Many of the Reformed and Calvinistic folks I know started out in CC. No need to spend ALL of our time spitting on the carpet in our common living room just to prove that we got all of the "taste" of CC out of our mouths.

    Does Pastor Chuck make chowderhead comments? You betcha. So do most mainline, broad evangelical, and all too many fully Reformed people. Look at the FV!!! That one started in REFORMED circles, not in a CC. I make no room for Arminian twaddle in my system of belief, but neither do I want to head back to Rome as some of our eminent "Reformed" luminaries who seem to be heading in that direction.

    Will God bring some people to himself through CC? Probably more than will ever hear the Gospel in a micro-Presbyterian denomination. Does that justify Smith's errors? Not in the least. In my mind Norm Geisler and Chuck Smith have both done great things for God DESPITE the HUGE and HORRIBLE errors in their systems (e.g., their manifestly DUMB comments about Calvinism).

    When I hear ignorant ruminations by Smith, Geisler, the Emergent Gurus, et. al., it makes me wonder why the Lord puts up with any of us. We are such cracked pots, aren't we?
     
  8. JoyFullMom

    JoyFullMom Puritan Board Junior

    I agree they are our brothers and sisters, even though, they did cut all ties with *us*. :)

    But, I am ROFL at the home visit comments. I can't wait to let my husband read this! LOL!
     
  9. Julio Martinez Jr

    Julio Martinez Jr Puritan Board Freshman

    I'm glad you like the dialog. It was all natural. lol. Maybe I can write a more elaborative dialog for the group's entertainment.
     
  10. eqdj

    eqdj Puritan Board Freshman

    :oops:

    That was my experience as well
     
  11. Amazing Grace

    Amazing Grace Puritan Board Junior

    CC, as a rule, follows expository V by V teaching. One possible result of this style is a lack of cohesiveness and no woven theme throughout the scripture. Without a Systematic Approach, you do not acknowledge the Analogy of Scripture and most likely will end denying Calvinism.
     
  12. KMK

    KMK Administrator Staff Member

    Glad your back, AG! And I agree with you.
     
  13. Amazing Grace

    Amazing Grace Puritan Board Junior

    Good to be back KMK. I used to listen to CS years ago prior to my conversion to RT(Reformed Theology). I remember him specifically saying that V by V teaching allows one to approach the bible with no bias or presuppositions. Since he is a good salesman, I agreed at first, but found myself in a maze of contradictions that I was told all must be true. The irony I found is out of one side of his mouth he would proclaim tolerance to all understanding within the broad Christian denominations, then bash Calvinism. "We welcome all to CC" then backdoor the denigration of RT.
     
  14. KMK

    KMK Administrator Staff Member

    I just ran across this by Lloyd-Jones this morning:

     
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