"Chrismon" tree in the sanctuary

[MMasztal]

I need some advice. My church has a tradition of erecting a Chrismon tree in the sanctuary in December. (The Chrismon tree is essentially a Christmas tree with supposedly Christian symbols hanging on it. But really, it's just another form of syncretism.)

This tradition preceded our current pastor's arrival when the church was a "community church". He also inherited the elders who were in place at the time. This was a few years ago. We now have some Reformed elders in the session and I want to propose that we cease the Chrismon tree tradition.

Am I wrong? I'd appreciate any thoughts regarding whether Chrismon trees are legit and whether your churches use these types of symbols.

Thanks in advance.

 

[LawrenceU]

I don't believe they have a place in the church worship area/sanctuary/auditorium. After three years and a lot of prayer we were able to remove the thing at one congregation I served. It wasn't without collateral damage, however.

 

[Scynne]

'Chrismon'? Yeppers, let's change the name, that'll make it okay. We won't pollute the church like those heathen! We'll pollute it differently.

 

[Whitefield]

'Chrismon'? Yeppers, let's change the name, that'll make it okay. We won't pollute the church like those heathen! We'll pollute it differently.

Michael, I suggest you not approach the elders with Scynne's attitude.

The last time I got one removed, it was step by step. First I got them to move it out of the sanctuary and into the entryway to the church. Then a couple of years later I got them to remove it. I found the progressive way more effective than the all or nothing approach.

 

[TimV]

For what it's worth, my old pastor Rushdoony loved the idea of a Christmas tree, since it symbolized the Tree of Life. I wouldn't have one in my home for years, but he mellowed me out a bit. Nowadays I personally draw the line at pictures of the Trinity, but I can't imagine my OPC church allowing that.

You most likely have more serious battles to fight, if my instinct serves me, and I'd consider picking your battles really carefully.

 

[Hamalas]

No, "Chrismon" trees are not "legit". Sounds like another job for.............

The RPW!!!!!!!!!!​

 

[Whitefield]

No, "Chrismon" trees are not "legit". Sounds like another job for.............

The RPW!!!!!!!!!!​

Michael, I would also suggest you not yell, in your attempt to correct this problem.

 

[Rich Koster]

I personally hate seeing a tree in the sanctuary (or anywhere else in the meetinghouse). It is a distraction. The fantasy of tossing it out a window keeps replaying in my mind when I see one.

 

[Hamalas]

No, "Chrismon" trees are not "legit". Sounds like another job for.............

The RPW!!!!!!!!!!​

Michael, I would also suggest you not yell, in your attempt to correct this problem.

That's not yelling, it's a dramatic announcer's voice! (Think, Superman...)

 

[MMasztal]

Thanks for the input. I will discuss this issue with some like minded elders prior tot he next meeting. The folks who brought the tree to the church 30 years ago have since left (on bad terms). This may be an opportune moment.

I understand this may be a touchy issue, but our we have to remember who we are worshipping. The church isn't the Elks or local Moose lodge.

 

[Curt]

'Chrismon'? Yeppers, let's change the name, that'll make it okay. We won't pollute the church like those heathen! We'll pollute it differently.

Michael, I suggest you not approach the elders with Scynne's attitude.

The last time I got one removed, it was step by step. First I got them to move it out of the sanctuary and into the entryway to the church. Then a couple of years later I got them to remove it. I found the progressive way more effective than the all or nothing approach.

Same thing I did.

BTW, what kind of vegetation do you use for Kwanza?

-----Added 8/11/2009 at 10:32:07 EST-----

No, "Chrismon" trees are not "legit". Sounds like another job for.............

The RPW!!!!!!!!!!​

Michael, I would also suggest you not yell, in your attempt to correct this problem.

That's not yelling, it's a dramatic announcer's voice! (Think, Superman...)

Or Bruce Buffer?

 

[Whitefield]

BTW, what kind of vegetation do you use for Kwanza?

Poison Ivy .. how about you?

 

[Curt]

BTW, what kind of vegetation do you use for Kwanza?

Poison Ivy .. how about you?

Blueberry bushes (low bush). It is Maine, after all.

 

[Vonnie Dee]

It was actually at a Baptist church that I was introduced to a Chrismon tree. I like it. I know this is about church meeting, however, this tree was decorated in a "Hanging of the Greens" ceremony. As each item went up, it's symbolism was explained. It reminds me of the Christian seder meal when every part of the meal points to Christ. We have a Chrismon tree in our home. The church I attend now does not have trees but they do put wreaths up during the holidays. If I was going to a church with a Chrismon tree, I don't think we would leave if someone decided not to do it anymore.

BTW when we celebrate Festivus, I like a golden pole with blue satin ribbon.

 

[JennyG]

Can someone explain please - where does the "mon" part of "Chrismon" come from? I've never heard the word before.

 

[LawrenceU]

'Chrismon'? Yeppers, let's change the name, that'll make it okay. We won't pollute the church like those heathen! We'll pollute it differently.

Michael, I suggest you not approach the elders with Scynne's attitude.

The last time I got one removed, it was step by step. First I got them to move it out of the sanctuary and into the entryway to the church. Then a couple of years later I got them to remove it. I found the progressive way more effective than the all or nothing approach.

That's basically how I did it as well.

-----Added 8/12/2009 at 07:37:26 EST-----

For what it's worth, my old pastor Rushdoony loved the idea of a Christmas tree, since it symbolized the Tree of Life. I wouldn't have one in my home for years, but he mellowed me out a bit. Nowadays I personally draw the line at pictures of the Trinity, but I can't imagine my OPC church allowing that.

You most likely have more serious battles to fight, if my instinct serves me, and I'd consider picking your battles really carefully.

Yep, sometimes there are bigger battles that must be faced first, like getting a solid theological foundation in place.

-----Added 8/12/2009 at 07:38:09 EST-----

BTW, what kind of vegetation do you use for Kwanza?

Poison Ivy .. how about you?

Blueberry bushes (low bush). It is Maine, after all.

Kudzu here.

 

[MMasztal]

LawrenceU wrote:

"Yep, sometimes there are bigger battles that must be faced first, like getting a solid theological foundation in place."

Hi Lawrence:

I've been working on that, too with some success. It's been somewhat difficult getting people out of the "community church" mentality, but the other elders are generally supportive.

 

[Tim]

Well, this is a good time to discuss this topic, as tempers flare closer to December.

I think the only symbols we have today are the bread and the wine. To use a tree is akin to suggesting that the symbols and other means God has given us are insufficient to encourage appreciation of the Gospel and to stir our spirits to reverent worship. That is, we need to add to them to make things better.

Mr. Masztal, since you are an elder, it seems to me your biggest challenge is to decide whether you want to address this now, or if there are more pressing issues, such as the 'theological foundation' that you mention immediately above.

May the Lord grant you wisdom on these matters.

 

[Spinningplates2]

BTW when we celebrate Festivus, I like a golden pole with blue satin ribbon.

Me too. Serenity NOW!

 

[Marrow Man]

BTW when we celebrate Festivus, I like a golden pole with blue satin ribbon.

And Festivus is the perfect time for the airing of grievances and feats of strength...

Michael, you are absolutely in the right, but you have also gotten some very sound advice (particularly Lance) above. If you need any "ARP inside baseball" advice, you know you can PM me.

 

[ericfromcowtown]

I need some advice. My church has a tradition of erecting a Chrismon tree in the sanctuary in December. (The Chrismon tree is essentially a Christmas tree with supposedly Christian symbols hanging on it. But really, it's just another form of syncretism.)

This tradition preceded our current pastor's arrival when the church was a "community church". He also inherited the elders who were in place at the time. This was a few years ago. We now have some Reformed elders in the session and I want to propose that we cease the Chrismon tree tradition.

Am I wrong? I'd appreciate any thoughts regarding whether Chrismon trees are legit and whether your churches use these types of symbols.

Thanks in advance.

I would much rather have a Christmas tree in the sanctuary than a Christmon tree. I hate Christian re-branding and cutesy attempts to justify secular traditions. If one has qualms about a Christmas tree at church, then don't have one. If one doesn't have qualms about a Christmas tree at church, then have one and don't try to explain it away.

It's similar to the harvest festivals some churches put on, where they allow their children to dress up at the church and eat candy the weekend after or before Halloween.

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

I need some advice. My church has a tradition of erecting a Chrismon tree in the sanctuary in December. (The Chrismon tree is essentially a Christmas tree with supposedly Christian symbols hanging on it. But really, it's just another form of syncretism.)

This tradition preceded our current pastor's arrival when the church was a "community church". He also inherited the elders who were in place at the time. This was a few years ago. We now have some Reformed elders in the session and I want to propose that we cease the Chrismon tree tradition.

Am I wrong? I'd appreciate any thoughts regarding whether Chrismon trees are legit and whether your churches use these types of symbols.

Thanks in advance.

I would much rather have a Christmas tree in the sanctuary than a Christmon tree. I hate Christian re-branding and cutesy attempts to justify secular traditions. If one has qualms about a Christmas tree at church, then don't have one. If one doesn't have qualms about a Christmas tree at church, then have one and don't try to explain it away.

It's similar to the harvest festivals some churches put on, where they allow their children to dress up at the church and eat candy the weekend after or before Halloween.

I agree. "We dont like to be like the 'sinners' around us so we will do the exact same thing they do and call it something different" What a great attitude. (Not attacking anyone directly just saying)

 

[Zenas]

I say burn the tree and let the children roast marshmallows over the flame. It would teach the children about what happens to idol worshippers and entice them with the promise of smores. /sarcasm

 

[Tripel]

I would much rather have a Christmas tree in the sanctuary than a Christmon tree. I hate Christian re-branding and cutesy attempts to justify secular traditions. If one has qualms about a Christmas tree at church, then don't have one. If one doesn't have qualms about a Christmas tree at church, then have one and don't try to explain it away.

It's similar to the harvest festivals some churches put on, where they allow their children to dress up at the church and eat candy the weekend after or before Halloween.

Exactly. Well said. If you're re-branding it, you are acknowledging there is a problem with it's "secular" form and that adding a splash of Jesus will make it all better.

That is popular contemporary Christianity in a nutshell. Sad.

I am one of those who doesn't see a problem with a Christmas tree or Christmas being celebrated by the church. Bring on the Christmas tree, and keep it's name.

 

[Zenas]

So Reformation day, held on Reformation day, where children dress up as Biblical characters to celebrate the Reformation and play games is bad because churches are presenting a Christian alternative to participation in a pagan holiday? Mind you, this is not "re-branding", it's something entirely seperate and alternative celebrating something entirely different.

I love you guys and say this with Christian love and charity, but you're whacked.

Oh yeah, I do Christmas trees. Burn me at the stake, I love the smell of a Douglas Fir in the morning.

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

So Reformation day, held on Reformation day, where children dress up as Biblical characters to celebrate the Reformation and play games is bad because churches are presenting a Christian alternative to participation in a pagan holiday? Mind you, this is not "re-branding", it's something entirely seperate and alternative celebrating something entirely different.

I love you guys and say this with Christian love and charity, but you're whacked.

Oh yeah, I do Christmas trees. Burn me at the stake, I love the smell of a Douglas Fir in the morning.

Shoot, I just want some candy... This, as you said, is not simply rebranding but is entirely seperate from Halloween. Now a Church with a "Fall Festival" on Oct 31 where kids come dressed as other things and get lots of candy and say "Halloween is evil".... really?

 

[Tripel]

So Reformation day, held on Reformation day, where children dress up as Biblical characters to celebrate the Reformation and play games is bad because churches are presenting a Christian alternative to participation in a pagan holiday? Mind you, this is not "re-branding", it's something entirely seperate and alternative celebrating something entirely different.

I love you guys and say this with Christian love and charity, but you're whacked.

I doubt anyone here is against a Reformation Day celebration. I'm all for it, as it's a great day.

I do think it's unfortunate that it shares a date with Halloween, and I'm not even anti-Halloween. If a church decides to host an event with costumes and candy on Oct 31 and call it a Reformation party, I don't think it's wrong. I think it's immature, but not wrong. Just call it what it is.
It is preferable, in my opinion, to do a reformation party sans all the Halloween stuff, then go home later that night to do trick-or-treating.

 

[Zenas]

My post directed toward Tripel was too harsh and I retract it accordingly with my apologies.

 

[MMasztal]

I don't believe they have a place in the church worship area/sanctuary/auditorium. After three years and a lot of prayer we were able to remove the thing at one congregation I served. It wasn't without collateral damage, however.

Well, I already started this with the "Easter Egg Hunt" on Resurrection Sunday. It hasn't been ceased, but it did get moved to Saturday. Hopefully........

 

[Tripel]

So it's preferrable to do the immature thing?

Is it your argument that it's more mature to allow your children to dress up like ghosts, zombies, and devils to go demand candy from neighbors, while celebrating the dead? Contrasted with the less mature option of having a Reformation Day where your children dress up as Biblical characters to celebrate the advent of the Reformation and the rebellion against Romish Poppery?

I'm content with my immaturity, you go enjoy the mature life sir.

First, I didn't say anything about dressing up like ghosts, zombies, devils, and demanding candy from anyone.

Second, I don't have a problem with a Reformation celebration that is all about the Reformation. What I find immature is to have a "Reformation" party, but everyone is dressed up as lions, ninjas, superheroes, and cheerleaders.

Perhaps I shouldn't have commented when you brought up Reformation Day, because now we're getting off-topic.