Celebration of Easter and Christmas?

[Grace Alone]

So the secular world could effectively ban the preaching of the resurrection and/or the incarnation by proclaiming the celebration of Christmas and Easter to be year round?

It seems to me that by eliminating from the calendar certain days when particular subjects can be preached is allowing the world to dictate the terms of our worship, at least to some degree. Is this consistent with the RPW?

Not at all.
He can preach on the incarnation any time during the year, or on the resurrection any month.
The point is the secular world should have no impact on the preaching at all, other than should a pastor decide it was in the best interest of the members to address some current event in the world to warn the flock about.

Like I think it might be good in Dec to preach against getting involved in the world and sucked into the Dec holiday to over spend and give each other gifts and help them think of ways how this might instead be avoided by giving to missionaries who are helping to tell people about Jesus, etc..

It always bugged me those who want to put Christ back in Christ-mass why they would give each other gifts instead of Him.
How self centered? Do you think that tradition of giving ourselves gifts instead of Christ was a Christian idea?Who else's b-day do we celebrate that way??

Is this even sensible??

Amen! I've been saying this for a long, long time, but it is not a popular sentiment.

 

[DonP]

Amen! I've been saying this for a long, long time, but it is not a popular sentiment.

Praise God sister. We can be unpopular together!!

I think we have to be careful and extra gentle and patient with people in these very emotionally charged areas though.

It took God a while to straighten me out on a lot of things and I am sureI am not straight on others still!!

Praise God for His mercy on us all

 

[Jon Peters]

So the secular world could effectively ban the preaching of the resurrection and/or the incarnation by proclaiming the celebration of Christmas and Easter to be year round?

It seems to me that by eliminating from the calendar certain days when particular subjects can be preached is allowing the world to dictate the terms of our worship, at least to some degree. Is this consistent with the RPW?

Not at all.
He can preach on the incarnation any time during the year, or on the resurrection any month.
The point is the secular world should have no impact on the preaching at all, other than should a pastor decide it was in the best interest of the members to address some current event in the world to warn the flock about.

Like I think it might be good in Dec to preach against getting involved in the world and sucked into the Dec holiday to over spend and give each other gifts and help them think of ways how this might instead be avoided by giving to missionaries who are helping to tell people about Jesus, etc..

It always bugged me those who want to put Christ back in Christ-mass why they would give each other gifts instead of Him.
How self centered? Do you think that tradition of giving ourselves gifts instead of Christ was a Christian idea?
Who else's b-day do we celebrate that way??

Is this even sensible??

You keep referring to it as Christ-Mass, as if those Reformed believers that acknowledge and participate in Christmas actually celebrate the mass. Using language like that, especially on a forum like this, is unnecessary and frankly, kind of a cheap shot. And save the bandwidth, we all know where the word comes from.

Are secular ideas always bad ideas?

-----Added 4/3/2009 at 11:42:10 EST-----

Amen! I've been saying this for a long, long time, but it is not a popular sentiment.

Praise God sister. We can be unpopular together!!

I think we have to be careful and extra gentle and patient with people in these very emotionally charged areas though.

It took God a while to straighten me out on a lot of things and I am sureI am not straight on others still!!

Praise God for His mercy on us all

Those of us who disagree with your position will try and be extra gentle and patient with you as well.

 

[Romans922]

Secular ways are the ways of the world are they not? So wouldn't they be 'bad'?

So the secular world could effectively ban the preaching of the resurrection and/or the incarnation by proclaiming the celebration of Christmas and Easter to be year round?

It seems to me that by eliminating from the calendar certain days when particular subjects can be preached is allowing the world to dictate the terms of our worship, at least to some degree. Is this consistent with the RPW?

Not at all.
He can preach on the incarnation any time during the year, or on the resurrection any month.
The point is the secular world should have no impact on the preaching at all, other than should a pastor decide it was in the best interest of the members to address some current event in the world to warn the flock about.

Like I think it might be good in Dec to preach against getting involved in the world and sucked into the Dec holiday to over spend and give each other gifts and help them think of ways how this might instead be avoided by giving to missionaries who are helping to tell people about Jesus, etc..

It always bugged me those who want to put Christ back in Christ-mass why they would give each other gifts instead of Him.
How self centered? Do you think that tradition of giving ourselves gifts instead of Christ was a Christian idea?
Who else's b-day do we celebrate that way??

Is this even sensible??

You keep referring to it as Christ-Mass, as if those Reformed believers that acknowledge and participate in Christmas actually celebrate the mass. Using language like that, especially on a forum like this, is unnecessary and frankly, kind of a cheap shot. And save the bandwidth, we all know where the word comes from.

Are secular ideas always bad ideas?

-----Added 4/3/2009 at 11:42:10 EST-----

Amen! I've been saying this for a long, long time, but it is not a popular sentiment.

Praise God sister. We can be unpopular together!!

I think we have to be careful and extra gentle and patient with people in these very emotionally charged areas though.

It took God a while to straighten me out on a lot of things and I am sureI am not straight on others still!!

Praise God for His mercy on us all

Those of us who disagree with your position will try and be extra gentle and patient with you as well.

 

[DonP]

You keep referring to it as Christ-Mass,

Those of us who disagree with your position will try and be extra gentle and patient with you as well.

No I refer to it distinctly as

Christ-mass.

Just as I use the term baptist and presbyterian when speaking of a style of belief or govt as opposed to a denominational name like Presbyterian Church of America.
Or christian, for ones who call themselves such yet have no outward profession consistent with being a Christian.

I think as professing Christian you would allow me the freedom to do this. Do I not have that freedom? As you do to refer to it as you wish.

I do not insult you for referring to it differently. Or take it as an insult or dig, that will be for God to judge.
Does the world or majority rule in this, as though you are right and I am wrong and making a dig?

And no, many have never heard that is was a special mass or anything of its roots, some even deny it. And yes even on this board.

But I do not do it to point that out, as much as to not acknowledge it by the other name to give it any credibility. I choose not to acknowledge it just as I usually refer to Hallows Eve by that terms. And East Star by that term.

I hold to the Confessional view of the RP which forbids such things in the church worship. I care less what people do in their homes.
Thanks,

 

[CNJ]

In my husband's family someone has Thanksgiving, another family has Christmas and we have Easter.

We have a cross in our front yard with a purple cloth until just before the Easter noon meal when the granddaughter exchanges the purple cloth for the white cloth to symbolize the grave clothes. Usually a pastor at the table reads Luke 24:30,31 When He was at the table with them, He took bread and blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. And their eyes were opened and they recognized Him. and then the pastor prays before the meal.


Now the Granddaughter enjoys Easter eggs and so we have an Easter egg hunt for her in the backyard to accommodate her parents. Her mother said she likes chocolate and so I stuffed plastic eggs with chocolate this year. They are waiting in the freezer and her parents hide them in our backyard just before she goes outside. At age seven she no long believes in the Easter bunny and her own pet bunny certainly doesn't lay eggs anyway.

But the cross tradition I started is a visual reminded for a visual/spacial granddaughter and the eggs are just fun. She says that Christmas and Easter are her favorite holidays.

 

[Albatross]

Secular ways are the ways of the world are they not? So wouldn't they be 'bad'?

Not at all.
He can preach on the incarnation any time during the year, or on the resurrection any month.
The point is the secular world should have no impact on the preaching at all, other than should a pastor decide it was in the best interest of the members to address some current event in the world to warn the flock about.

Like I think it might be good in Dec to preach against getting involved in the world and sucked into the Dec holiday to over spend and give each other gifts and help them think of ways how this might instead be avoided by giving to missionaries who are helping to tell people about Jesus, etc..

It always bugged me those who want to put Christ back in Christ-mass why they would give each other gifts instead of Him.
How self centered? Do you think that tradition of giving ourselves gifts instead of Christ was a Christian idea?
Who else's b-day do we celebrate that way??

Is this even sensible??

You keep referring to it as Christ-Mass, as if those Reformed believers that acknowledge and participate in Christmas actually celebrate the mass. Using language like that, especially on a forum like this, is unnecessary and frankly, kind of a cheap shot. And save the bandwidth, we all know where the word comes from.

Are secular ideas always bad ideas?

-----Added 4/3/2009 at 11:42:10 EST-----

Praise God sister. We can be unpopular together!!

I think we have to be careful and extra gentle and patient with people in these very emotionally charged areas though.

It took God a while to straighten me out on a lot of things and I am sureI am not straight on others still!!

Praise God for His mercy on us all

Those of us who disagree with your position will try and be extra gentle and patient with you as well.

The term ideas, not ways, was used.

 

[Romans922]

Don't secular ideas come from secular people, who are totally depraved? Apart from God nothing they do/think/say is good...

 

[DonP]

The term ideas, not ways, was used.

I don't understand

If it was about my part in the post, I meant a minister can preach on anything in scripture any day.

He should not be conditioned by the ways or ideas of the world as to what he should preach on. But may choose to address a current event in the world as scripture speaks to the issue.

 

[OPC'n]

I celebrate x-mass as a family get together where we give gifts, good food, and beautiful decorations. I love x-mass! I don't even know when Easter is except that it's in April...right?

 

[MrMerlin777]

 

[ww]

yeah

 

[Whitefield]

yeah

Time for the glue factory.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Singing seasonal hymns (we won’t get into the issue of Psalmody vs. uninspired hymns here), scripture readings, and sermons following a seasonal theme dictated by a man-made religious calendar is giving public recognition to something not mandated by God in his word.

I'm not trying to get off track here, but just looking for some clarification. I assume that you are against having a worship service emphasizing missions once a year or a reformation themed service at the end of each october, correct?

I have no problem with regular preaching on particular themes such as missions or Reformation gospel truths based upon pastoral concerns and providential circumstances.

Eulogizing the Reformers as if they were canonized saints, and mission reports, perhaps given by women missionaries, have no place in the public worship. Lectures and mission talks are better outside of public worship, though this does not preclude a visiting male missionary or lecturer from expositing the word, perhaps on a mission or soteriological theme, in the public worship.

A pastor should not be tied to a prescribed day in his choice of text or sermon. Such takes from him his pastoral prerogative.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Take celebrate to mean emphasize.

What do you mean by trappings?

Something not a warranted element of worship, not qualifying as a circumstance of worship, made a preeminent and determining factor in public worship.

Is it that seasonal hymns, scripture readings and sermons used on a Sunday remotely close to the 25th of December or a Sunday in April can detract from the worship of God?

If the systematic and continuous exposition of scripture should providentially have one preaching on the Incarnation in late December, or the Resurrection soon after the spring equinox, such is not determined by external and unwarranted factors. The pastor has the prerogative to preach on any part of scripture or scriptural theme as he may be led by providential circumstances and pastoral wisdom, though he should take care not to reinforce superstition, giving more importance to man made “holy” days, or peoples tendency to think they are more religious or meritorious because they observe such.

I’ve heard, when G. I. Williamson was serving a Reformed church in New Zealand, he was requested by the elders to preach a Christmas or Easter (I don’t remember which) sermon. It would have been within his powers of office to refuse to do so. However, with pastoral insight, he made use of the providential circumstances to teach basic biblical principles. He submitted to their request and preached on why they should not celebrate “holy” days.

When December 25th fell on the Lord’s Day, I have been known to preach an anti-Christ-mass sermon, explaining why we did not celebrate man made “holy” days.

Another genuine question. With both the incarnation and resurrection happening on a specific day, unknown to all, is there a day that is allowed to emphasize either?

As both are basic to the gospel, they may be preached on any Lord’s Day, and emphasized when pastorally and providentially indicated as helpful, and not increasing superstition in regards to man invented religion.

All worship and preaching is to be God pleasing and glorifying, not people pleasing and man glorifying.

-----Added 4/3/2009 at 02:22:47 EST-----

Why? When there are questions I've not yet answered.

If you've learned all you need to know on the subject, there is no requirement to keep reading the thread.

-----Added 4/3/2009 at 02:40:03 EST-----

Motive matters here. Preaching on the Incarnation near the winter solstice, because the world celebrates a papist “holy” day, and acknowledging such “festival” in the public worship itself, is incorporating an additional unwarranted element into the public worship of God. The same for preaching on the Resurrection on the first Sunday, on or after the first full moon following the spring equinox.

As I preach through a gospel, or a series on the life of Christ, if the nativity narrative fell on or near the winter solstice, I wouldn’t refrain from preaching on it because of what the world is doing. Likewise for the Resurrection accounts if they fell soon after the spring equinox. However, if either of these fell in July or September or February, that’s when I’d preach on them.

So the secular world could effectively ban the preaching of the resurrection and/or the incarnation by proclaiming the celebration of Christmas and Easter to be year round?

The secular world would be in accord with scriptural warrant, not making any day a “holy” day, but recognizing the Incarnation and Resurrection appropriate and underlying truths in all Christian worship and preaching.

Of course, a pastor should resist anyone prescribing what he should preach on; though pastoral concern would dictate his taking the special requests of congregation and elders into consideration, as long as it did not involve compromise of scriptural truth, or encouragement of superstition.

It seems to me that by eliminating from the calendar certain days when particular subjects can be preached is allowing the world to dictate the terms of our worship, at least to some degree. Is this consistent with the RPW?

Nothing I’ve said in this thread would prohibit preaching on any part of scripture on any Lord’s Day; it merely maintains the liberty of pastors to preach as scripture, the Spirt’s leading, pastoral concern, providential circumstances, and wise consideration of how superstitious and man made traditions make void the word of God, may direct.

___________________________


Now, I’ve answered all outstanding questions directed to me. I have no need to beat a dead mule; but to respond to all genuine requests for clarification of what I’ve previously said.