Hey I just got back from hanging out with an Arminian friend of mine who posed the "great" Calvinism is equal to fatalism argument and wanted to see what sorts of arguments can be made against such a claim. I know that almost no one wants to say that Calvinism is fatalistic, but doesn't it seem like we are in a catch 22 in the fact that we cannot avoid it? I know Sproul would say that it is not, because it is not like we are stones or puppets, but we are living human beings; and I know Piper would say it's not pretty much for the same reasonings, but it's a tough one to grapple with logically.
Calvinists tend to not want to distort the human aspect in salvation, and yet we still maintain "Irresitible Grace" which would clearly denounce any human connection with salvation, and it seems that a necesary effect of that is fatalism. As Piper says, "Just because the choice is given don't think God isn't coming up from behind and pushing you with His Irrestible Grace to 'push' you off of the cliff of unbelief", but if Grace cannot be resisted, then we have ended in fatalism. Likewise Luther would say that the human aspect of salvation is like us being tied to a chair and God telling us to grab life and we cannot, unless His grace "undoes" our chains and HE ALLOWS us to grab it; but likewise this results in fatalism.
Could one simply argue that our salvation didn't come about by necesity, but solely by God's soveriegn will and therefore it is not fatalism? I don't know if that resolves the issue at all. Well he said a lot of interesting points and Lord willing I'd like to run them past anyone willing to read; I respect much of the God fearing knowledge on this forum, and find all of you a great strength in what could be called a time of "skepticism" for myself. I look forward to hearing you and perhaps will pose the other problems that seem evident within Calvinism. Thanks for hearing me out.
Blessings,
Borg
Calvinists tend to not want to distort the human aspect in salvation, and yet we still maintain "Irresitible Grace" which would clearly denounce any human connection with salvation, and it seems that a necesary effect of that is fatalism. As Piper says, "Just because the choice is given don't think God isn't coming up from behind and pushing you with His Irrestible Grace to 'push' you off of the cliff of unbelief", but if Grace cannot be resisted, then we have ended in fatalism. Likewise Luther would say that the human aspect of salvation is like us being tied to a chair and God telling us to grab life and we cannot, unless His grace "undoes" our chains and HE ALLOWS us to grab it; but likewise this results in fatalism.
Could one simply argue that our salvation didn't come about by necesity, but solely by God's soveriegn will and therefore it is not fatalism? I don't know if that resolves the issue at all. Well he said a lot of interesting points and Lord willing I'd like to run them past anyone willing to read; I respect much of the God fearing knowledge on this forum, and find all of you a great strength in what could be called a time of "skepticism" for myself. I look forward to hearing you and perhaps will pose the other problems that seem evident within Calvinism. Thanks for hearing me out.
Blessings,
Borg