Calvinism and Mortality

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Eoghan

Eoghan

Puritan Board Senior
With a calvinist mindset I realise
  1. we all have to die. (2,813,503 registered deaths in the United States in 2017)
  2. we will probably die from something. Something like 80% of men die WITH prostate cancer but NOT from prostate cancer. The distinction is important. The cause of death may be a car crash or pneumonia in a strictly causal sense but it is also the will of God (Alzheimer’s 121,404, Diabetes 83,564
    Influenza and pneumonia 55,672

  3. statistically you are more likely to die in winter than summer (December, January, February). This is in part due to cold weather, low U.V. (sunshine) and seasonal illnesses
  4. Taking reasonable steps is well, reasonable, but should we ever feel responsible for someones premature demise? If I give the flu to my Dad who suffers from pulmonary emphycema and he dies at 83, am I responsible for his death? As a calvinist who believes in sovereignty I don't think so. Agency perhaps but responsible no.
  5. When there is a particularly virulent winter flu, and death rates are higher are they lower for the rest of the year? This I think touches on "agency" people are going to be called home every year/enter eternity but what is "premature"?

I apologise if this appears dispassionate and unemotional but I seem to find my belief in sovereignty makes me less anxious or worried.
Maybe I am all over the place with this but my grandfather bless him was impatient to go home to the Lord. I confidently expect to die within the next 30 years or so, if not before.

I am at peace with my own mortality and the final journey. Just not sure anyone else is.
 
Eoghan said:
I am at peace with my own mortality and the final journey. Just not sure anyone else is.
Click to expand...

I have three main prayer requests that I hope to see answered before I die. Besides that, I look forward to the day. I am not ignorant of Satan's devices, and I know he is one to kick you when you are down. I hope I can overcome in the evil day, for dying is sometimes a great testing period. But apart from my weaknesses, I look forward for my change to come. (Job 14:14) I often use this hope in evangelism. I sure wouldn't like to stay here in this time of humiliation forever. "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." (1 Corinthians 15:19)

EDIT:

Here are a few of my final wishes and my Last Words as it stands today:

I have three requests for the memorial service:
  1. That the hymn - For All the Saints - be sung.
  2. That Psalm 90 be read. Hopefully, by my youngest son David unless he would rather someone else read it. I leave that up to you, Dave.
  3. And maybe, just maybe if there is an adequate sound system that my theme song - Above Everything Else, by Rend Collective be played. The words should be in the bulletin.
The Sermon - That the minister pretty much ignores me and preaches the gospel on some theme like "Today is the Day of Salvation," or whatever he thinks best.

That would like my final words read that are in the section titled, [If anyone asks how I want to be remembered, please say the following about me:]

Well, that should take up almost too much time already. Keep anything else as short as possible.
=======

MY FINAL WORDS

I leave no legacy, nor will anyone long remember me, and have, as of this date, no posterity. My time in this tent was much like the path of the God I love when it is said of Him in Psalm 77:19 "Thy way is in the sea, and thy path in the great waters and thy footsteps are not known." In my later years, the Lord blessed me (some might say cursed me) with a greater depth of knowledge of the remaining corruption of my own fallen heart. Even with the Seed of God living in my breast through the Holy Spirit's presence, I saw the true meaning of Jeremiah 17:9, which reads, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Even seeing my heart was mixed with the imperfection of its own deceitfulness, so I probably had yet greater depths that I never fathomed. The human heart is so dark that, as Frederick Nietzsche put it, its: "...roots reach down to Hell." My only hope in life was in the fact the Lord was my only hope. (Psalms 146:5) This is the base—the very beginning where my faith started and where it stayed.

Yet I can honestly say—the Lord is my witness—that God was so good to me my whole life through in ways no one will ever know except for He and me. I always wanted to do what was right and holy (2 Chronicles 6:8), but Romans 7 would kick in and head me off so that I often, yea usually, could not perform the good I so desired. But I am fine now that change has come. Many times in my later life, I felt as though I must be the happiest man in the world.

Ye, who read these words, take heed that you do not waste your life in the vain world. Read and reread the book of Ecclesiastes from the beginning, "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labor which he taketh under the sun?" To the end, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

I am black, but comely, (Song 1:5)
 
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Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached a sermon on this in 1960. His biographer Iain Murray regards it as one of his greatest evangelistic sermons. MLJ argues there are two ways of dying - you either die in your sins or die in the Lord. Further the big issue is not the mode of death. He preached this in London not all that long after WW2 where Londoners were well aware of the danger of being killed by a bomb. MLJ urges his congregation "Don't be interested only in the mode of your death. Concentrate on the state of your soul". I highly recommend this sermon. It did my soul much good.
 
Okay, I can't resist...I am going to go ahead and poke a little....

First, what was the purpose of the OP? Was it to stir us up to faith or to announce your own strength?

Someone could mistake what you are saying for the following:
As a Calvinist [one who has superior theology] I am not scared to die....even if I cough on an old man and he dies, I know I am not responsible because God is sovereign... you all might be skeered to die, but I aint...

There are elements in your grand announcement that perhaps sound possibly prideful.

Q68: What is required in the Sixth Commandment?
A68: The Sixth Commandment requireth all lawful endeavours to preserve our own life, and the life of others.

It is compatible to be a Calvinist and still not want to die. We are commanded to take all lawful precautions. Divine sovereignty is not an excuse for exposing our friends and family to illness.

You don't prove yourself to have more faith just because you are more careless.

You write: "I confidently expect to die within the next 30 years or so, if not before.

I am at peace with my own mortality and the final journey. Just not sure anyone else is."

Again, this could possibly sound a bit prideful to a reader. I also expect that your confidence lies in that you expect to live for the next 20-30 years and not merely the next 2 or 3 days.

Change your sentence to, "I might die within the next 7 days and I still feel okay" and then I'll be more impressed with your statement.
 
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My Grandfather was in his nineties when he went to be with his Lord. He outlived his wife by about twenty years and longed for the Lord to take him. Paul expressed a similar desire. Maybe it is just our secular society but folks seem very keen on prolonging their life while at the same time embracing euthanasia?
I think there was a Rumanian alternative to "and they lived happily ever after". As I recall it goes something like this "... And so they lived well and they died well".

Let's put it this way, CAN YOU DIE PREMATURELY? I ask that here in the theology forum.
 
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Eoghan said:
My Grandfather was in his nineties when he went to be with his Lord. He outlived his wife by about twenty years and longed for the Lord to take him. Paul expressed a similar desire. Maybe it is just our secular society but folks seem very keen on prolonging their life while at the same time embracing euthanasia?
I think there was a Rumanian alternative to "and they lived happily ever after". As I recall it goes something like this "... And so they lived well and they died well".

Let's put it this way, CAN YOU DIE PREMATURELY? I ask that here in the theology forum.
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Yes and no. I think the confusion lies in the way you're conceiving the question. From our perspective yes, from God's perspective no (as far as we can know these things). "Prematurely" only makes sense from a human perspective.
 
As George Whitefield once said, “We are immortal until our work on earth is done.” I try not to overthink the rest.
 
Eoghan said:
My Grandfather was in his nineties when he went to be with his Lord. He outlived his wife by about twenty years and longed for the Lord to take him. Paul expressed a similar desire. Maybe it is just our secular society but folks seem very keen on prolonging their life while at the same time embracing euthanasia?
I think there was a Rumanian alternative to "and they lived happily ever after". As I recall it goes something like this "... And so they lived well and they died well".

Let's put it this way, CAN YOU DIE PREMATURELY? I ask that here in the theology forum.
Click to expand...

Yes, humanly speaking we can die prematurely if we act stupid.

All rational people desire to prolong their lives.
 
Eoghan said:
My Grandfather was in his nineties when he went to be with his Lord. He outlived his wife by about twenty years and longed for the Lord to take him. Paul expressed a similar desire. Maybe it is just our secular society but folks seem very keen on prolonging their life while at the same time embracing euthanasia?
I think there was a Rumanian alternative to "and they lived happily ever after". As I recall it goes something like this "... And so they lived well and they died well".

Let's put it this way, CAN YOU DIE PREMATURELY? I ask that here in the theology forum.
Click to expand...
I’ll take a stab at this. Yes, I think one can die prematurely. I think we all die prematurely in the sense none of us will ever obtain perfect righteousness in this life. We however are growing in righteousness through the process of sanctification and I have faith God will sanctify us to the proper extent he sees fit.

While one can anxiously desire to be with the Lord (Philippians 1:23), we should acknowledge God has work still within us - which is valuable. I would submit therefore those who desire suicide or vainly place their lives in jeopardy are disregarding God’s sanctification and thus declaring they feel they are ready to move on, contrary to God’s apparent will. In this hypothetical situation, if they die, they do so prematurely.

I think it may be helpful to consider as well the rewards God apparently provides for doing his work. It doesn’t appear we all receive the same rewards. Do those who receive less die prematurely?
 
Pergamum said:
"As a Calvinist [one who has superior theology] I am not scared to die....even if I cough on an old man and he dies, I know I am not responsible because God is sovereign... you all might be skeered to die, but I aint..."
Click to expand...
Brother, not only is this post unnecessarily acerbic, but putting these words in quotes is careless. This is not what he said. You have expressed your impression of his words and then put it into quotes. I would ask you to edit your post by at least removing the quotation marks to reflect that these are not his words.
 
C. M. Sheffield said:
Brother, not only is this post unnecessarily acerbic, but putting these words in quotes is careless. This is not what he said. You have expressed your impression of his words and then put it into quotes. I would ask you to edit your post by at least removing the quotation marks to reflect that these are not his words.
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Edited, as per your nit-pickiness.
 
C. M. Sheffield said:
Brother, I feel reasonably sure that if you thought it was just "nit-pickiness" you would not have bothered editing it. But either way, you have my thanks.
Click to expand...

I often appease a brother even when I think he is nit-picky because I love him for the sake of Christ.
 
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Stephen L Smith said:
Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached a sermon on this in 1960. His biographer Iain Murray regards it as one of his greatest evangelistic sermons. MLJ argues there are two ways of dying - you either die in your sins or die in the Lord. Further the big issue is not the mode of death. He preached this in London not all that long after WW2 where Londoners were well aware of the danger of being killed by a bomb. MLJ urges his congregation "Don't be interested only in the mode of your death. Concentrate on the state of your soul". I highly recommend this sermon. It did my soul much good.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones is one of my favorite Biblical expositor's. I have been going through his Romans messages lately. I'm looking forward to listening.
 
Stephen L Smith said:
Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached a sermon on this in 1960. His biographer Iain Murray regards it as one of his greatest evangelistic sermons. MLJ argues there are two ways of dying - you either die in your sins or die in the Lord. Further the big issue is not the mode of death. He preached this in London not all that long after WW2 where Londoners were well aware of the danger of being killed by a bomb. MLJ urges his congregation "Don't be interested only in the mode of your death. Concentrate on the state of your soul". I highly recommend this sermon. It did my soul much good.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That was an excellent recommendation.

The gym has been closed, so I went for a brisk walk today and listened to that sermon, since you suggested it. I think the recent news has me more stressed than I realized. That sermon helped me reframe things in a good way.
 
I do think we have to be careful in how we approach death -- at the end of the day, it is a dreadful matter that anyone dies. I am not afraid of death because I know in whom I have believed, but at the same time I would do everything in my power (without compromising my faith, I hope!) to avoid death, and I would be distraught if my wife died. I would not 'grieve as others do who have no hope', but I would grieve, and I am quite sure I would never be the same person I was.

Unfortunately you can't separate agency and responsibility like that. Cf. Exodus 21:28-29. I don't want to speak of your father as I would be greatly distressed if the worst did happen -- God grant that it may not!

Let me instead tell you of someone I know. His father asked him not to make a pool as it would be dangerous for the younger brother of this person. This person did not listen and took no precautions, and the younger brother drowned and died. This person was racked by guilt and became suicidal, and in the providence of God a stranger passed by and told him of the gospel of Christ. Now, he knew he was responsible, but he also knew he was forgiven by God and that God has all things in his hands, and even when we can't see how, he does work all things for good to those who love him.

I'm sure you meant no harm as you did speak of taking reasonable steps, and you did apologise if you came across as dispassionate as you felt less anxious because of your faith. Praise God for your faith! -- but I think it may have been put a bit more sensitively particularly when you think that people on this board might lose their loved ones in this illness.
 
spunky01 said:
Thanks for the link. Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones is one of my favorite Biblical expositor's. I have been going through his Romans messages lately. I'm looking forward to listening.
Click to expand...
Jack K said:
Thank you. That was an excellent recommendation.

The gym has been closed, so I went for a brisk walk today and listened to that sermon, since you suggested it. I think the recent news has me more stressed than I realized. That sermon helped me reframe things in a good way.
Click to expand...
Glad my suggestion was a blessing. I listen to a lot of Lloyd-Jones sermons. They have helped me tremendously in my Christian life. You might be interested in the review I did recently on a DVD series on Dr Lloyd-Jones life and ministry.
 
I’m currently studying Job and chapter 23 really hit me as it relates to this conversation. As Matthew Henry comments on verse 15:
See what confusion poor Job was now in, for he contradicted himself: just now he was troubled for God’s absence (v. 8, v. 9); now he is troubled at his presence. When I consider, I am afraid of him. What he now felt made him fear worse. There is indeed that which, if we consider it, will show that we have cause to be afraid of God—his infinite justice and purity, compared with our own sinfulness and vileness; but if, withal, we consider his grace in a Redeemer, and our compliance with that grace, our fears will vanish and we shall see cause to hope in him.​
 
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