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You also state that:
"œAmong other things, Hodges says someone can supposedly make a confession of faith, fall into avowed atheism, die an avowed atheist in fact, and is still redeemed. My contention would be that such a person was never regenerate."
This, once again, seems to be implying that there are certain sins that a believer just cannot commit (I assume you agree that what you describe is a sin). If this is the case, how do I know what sins are on the proof positive of unbelief list? Just out of academic curiosity, how do I determine what sins would comprise such a list.
"œHe who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
"”John 3:18-20
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
"”Philippians 2:11-13
Originally posted by Puritanhead
God will complete the good work which He starts in all regenerate believers of faith:Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
"”Philippians 2:11-13
Well, now as evident by the last round of comments, they take issue with my blogspot article that says we must proclaim the law to proclaim the Gospel. I have asked for their Gospel message.Originally posted by SemperFideles
This is no Gospel at all. There is no Gospel without the recognition of sin.
Anathema! Anathema (Gal 1:8-9)
This illustration presented at the Church of the Open Door which at the time was pastored by G. Michael Cocoris. The series of tapes is entitled, "Great Themes in the Book of Hebrews," which is available through Redencion Viva Publishers).I have a friend, and more than a friend, a man who labored with me side by side in the ministry of God´s Word in the little group that has become __________ Bible chapel and this friend has fallen away from the Christian faith. He graduated from Bob Jones University and from Dallas Theological Seminary. And about the time when he and his wife left Dallas his wife contracted a very serious illness which over the years got progressively worse until she was reduced to being a complete invalid, and after the death of his wife I visited my friend (who now lives in the Midwest and who teaches Ancient History in a secular university). And as we sat in the living room together, face to face, he told me very frankly but graciously THAT HE NO LONGER CLAIMED TO BE A CHRISTIAN AT ALL, THAT HE NO LONGER BELIEVED THE THINGS THAT HE ONCE PREACHED AND TAUGHT, and the situation was even worse than he described because I heard through others that in the classroom on the university campus he often mocked and ridiculed the Christian faith. As I sat in that living room I was very painfully aware that it was impossible for me to talk that man into changing his mind.
Still, even at conservative evangelical colleges such as Liberty, Pensacola, Regent and Wheaton, the Lordship view of John MacArthur is held in higher respect, and many dispensational evangelicals cast derision on these antinomian easy-believism screeds. It just happens the antinomian adherants have really big mouths, and I think their influence is overblown.Originally posted by houseparent
Sadly I know many Christians who would dispute that. Hodges has a big audience.
Originally posted by Puritanhead
Still, even at conservative evangelical colleges such as Liberty, Pensacola, Regent and Wheaton, the Lordship view of John MacArthur is held in higher respect, and many dispensational evangelicals cast derision on these antinomian easy-believism screeds. It just happens the antinomian adherants have really big mouths, and I think their influence is overblown.Originally posted by houseparent
Sadly I know many Christians who would dispute that. Hodges has a big audience.
Maybe, it is big on the Left Coast, and at prosperity Gospel churches. I don't know. Heresy tends to run together.
Originally posted by houseparent
It seems to stem from the arminian "Eternal Salvation" beliefs. We believe in preservarance, but that's not the same thing as "eternal security". It seems to me that these people desire so much to defend "eternal security" that they will believe anyone is saved if they so much as nodded their head in some fashion when asked if they believed in God, or said the Lords prayer with their high school football team before a game.
[Edited on 8-25-2006 by houseparent]
Originally posted by houseparent
It seems to stem from the arminian "Eternal Salvation" beliefs. We believe in preservarance, but that's not the same thing as "eternal security."
I don't know what is more offensive? Zane Hodges or David Corner?Originally posted by Pilgrim
Eternal Security/OSAS is not Arminian, but is actually a bastardization of Calvinistic teaching. Consistent Arminianism teaches conditional security.
No, I think you're mistaken here.Originally posted by Pilgrim
Doesn't Charles Stanley teach a view of "eternal security" very similar to Hodges?
how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house, solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20-21) How do you separate repentance toward God and faith in Christ in this passage?
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. (Titus 2:11-14) Saving grace teaches us to live sensibly and righteously; and the people of God in Christ are without question described as "zealous for good deeds."
Ideas have consequences. How does it effect their evangelism? I asked their proprietor to articulate the Gospel of Grace. They scoff at me for saying evangelist should even make reference to law. However, the law serves it purpose to bring people to knowledge of sin. Without knowledge of sin there is no Gospel.Originally posted by Bladestunner316
Ryan,
Being the horrible sinner Iam I honestly dont see how they can believe such a lie that we cannot be saved without repentance. Im constanlty battleling the flesh and feel and know in my heart the need of repentance. You cannot read scripture and not see it commanded from Genesis to Revelation. For these people to not see it is plain nuts to me.
Blade
Originally posted by Puritanhead
No, I think you're mistaken here.Originally posted by Pilgrim
Doesn't Charles Stanley teach a view of "eternal security" very similar to Hodges?
Meg,Originally posted by turmeric
Ryan,
This whole doctrine arises from aberrant rivivalist views of sin, decisional regeneration and aberrant views of sanctification popularized by the Keswick Convention in the 19th Century. It's an amalgum of Finney, Wesley, and a guy named William E Boardman, with a little Darby mixed in for flavor, and you get heresy stew!