Blasphemy in the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America)?

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NaphtaliPress

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This video from last fall is making the rounds this last week and causing a stir. Dr. Pipa at GPTS has called it out as blasphemous, tantamount to Baal worship and charges need to be filed and time for folks in the PCA who believe in the principles of the confessional standards to step up and not demur and out of fear of being ungentlemanly not call a spade a spade. The video is linked below. Dr. Keller has on his facebook page apparently obliquely defended this, judging from his responses on the comments; which, you will need to bear with some unhelpful to say the least commenters).
Dr. Pipa's comments with a brief reasoning against the propriety of liturgical dance in worship opens the podcast. http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?m=t&s=71117163425
How can one church stand that has one group celebrating, boasting about and defending a worship practice, that another finds not just unappealing, but unscriptural, offensive and blasphemous?
 
With all due respect to Rev. Keller, his Facebook post was only a series of assertions. However, he did quote from Arthur Danto, art critic and philosopher, to make a point about imagination! Not even a pretense of anything Biblical in this defense.

This is quite alarming, to say the least.
 
I have a hyper-traditional Roman Catholic friend who has a facebook page making fun of the Novus Ordo (post-Vatican II watered down) liturgy. The joke in trad Catholic circles is that Novus Ordo liturgies entail clown masses and liturgical dance. I never thought it would happen here in Reformeddom.
 
Bill The Baptist said:
Supposedly it represented the trinity. Regardless, it was horrifying.
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That would make it more horrifying in my opinion. This stuff is not out of place in American mega-church culture with the skits, lights, smoke and other performance/entertainment rigmarole. The ballet supposedly makes this a bit more high-brow. Sad.
 
"My wife danced for the St. Louis Ballet Co. for many years and says that a number of the moves performed in this dance were designed for male/female and not male/male dancers.

"I don't know if it was Redeemer's intention to advocate something concerning sexuality or gender, but surely most heterosexual people (believers and unbelievers) would think this is questionable to say the least.

I thought I had seen everything in the PCA from raucous praise bands to women reading Scripture in worship, to the practice of intinction, but this bizarre dramatic portrayal of John 13:21ff performed by three male dancers dressed in white takes the cake."

Src: https://www.facebook.com/andrewjwebb/posts/10159042547455038?comment_id=10159043774765038&comment_tracking={"tn":"R"}
 
Females going into the diaconate role, and males seeing dancing as a ministry, on the 500th anniversary of the Reformation..
 
I honestly cannot wrap my head around this. At what point did anyone think this was ok?
 
When folks like Frame argued for liturgical dance? I mean, seriously, this has not happened in the dark. The new mix is adding the cultural decline to the rejection of biblical worship (liturgical dance has been going on in the PCA unchallenged for decades). I confess it still leaves me a bit breathless how quickly this decline has occurred; but scriptural worship principles were undermined in the PCA from the day it could not pass a directory for worship accorded constitutional status.
YRRSBCGuy said:
I honestly cannot wrap my head around this. At what point did anyone think this was ok?
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Definitely unscriptural. Has no place in a Christian worship service. Dance, being non-verbal, is completely subjective as to interpretation. If that was supposed to be a dance about the Trinity, well, you'll just have to take their word for it, I suppose. Does nothing to explain the Trinity, of course.

That's the PCA for you.
 
That was creepy. Was that first dancer wearing makeup?

C'mon guys, you're supposed to be leaders, not pretty boy dancers.
 
I've been to Messianic churches in the 1970s with a Jewish girl that got saved. They were into dancing a la Psalm 150 ( "Praise Him with timbrel and dancing").

You know what? The men dancing were so masculine. I don't know how else to put it- they looked like they could be King David before the ark. I don't know anything about dance from a professional standpoint, but it was- intuitively speaking- masculinity with the guys who danced. Maybe part of it was the songs, which back then tended to be scripture set to rousing music. It powerfully joyful. The men were men, and the dancing conveyed strength.

This video you posted? Ugh. Even if I thought it was acceptable to dance, this isn't it. It isn't masculine at all. My reaction is that it is effeminate perversion in the church. I am again speaking somewhat intuitively, but when you've seen men dancing in a truly masculine way, you can look at this and immediately know it is wrong.
 
lynnie said:
I've been to Messianic churches in the 1970s with a Jewish girl that got saved. They were into dancing a la Psalm 150 ( "Praise Him with timbrel and dancing").

You know what? The men dancing were so masculine. I don't know how else to put it- they looked like they could be King David before the ark. I don't know anything about dance from a professional standpoint, but it was- intuitively speaking- masculinity with the guys who danced. Maybe part of it was the songs, which back then tended to be scripture set to rousing music. It powerfully joyful. The men were men, and the dancing conveyed strength.

This video you posted? Ugh. Even if I thought it was acceptable to dance, this isn't it. It isn't masculine at all. My reaction is that it is effeminate perversion in the church. I am again speaking somewhat intuitively, but when you've seen men dancing in a truly masculine way, you can look at this and immediately know it is wrong.
Click to expand...

Well said. I don't want to categorically say dancing qua dancing is wrong (even though you will never catch me dancing), simply because the bible occasionally commands it. But this was so effeminate.
 
lynnie said:
I've been to Messianic churches in the 1970s with a Jewish girl that got saved. They were into dancing a la Psalm 150 ( "Praise Him with timbrel and dancing").

You know what? The men dancing were so masculine. I don't know how else to put it- they looked like they could be King David before the ark. I don't know anything about dance from a professional standpoint, but it was- intuitively speaking- masculinity with the guys who danced. Maybe part of it was the songs, which back then tended to be scripture set to rousing music. It powerfully joyful. The men were men, and the dancing conveyed strength.

This video you posted? Ugh. Even if I thought it was acceptable to dance, this isn't it. It isn't masculine at all. My reaction is that it is effeminate perversion in the church. I am again speaking somewhat intuitively, but when you've seen men dancing in a truly masculine way, you can look at this and immediately know it is wrong.
Click to expand...

Maybe the PCA should stick with the Bottle Dance from Fiddler on the Roof in their worship services. :)
 
NaphtaliPress said:
(liturgical dance has been going on in the PCA unchallenged for decades)
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Really? I must really be in backwater circles. I hadn't heard of such a thing. I can't even conjure up the word "liturgical" being combined with "dance."

I have seen cantatas in a Lutheran setting, but they stood around singing.

ReformedReidian said:
Well said. I don't want to categorically say dancing qua dancing is wrong (even though you will never catch me dancing), simply because the bible occasionally commands it. But this was so effeminate.
Click to expand...

Exactly my position and my thought. (I last "danced" in the late 70s one evening in a disco. My knee went out and I was sprawled on the floor. Everyone stood around to see what my next move would be.)

I thought the dancing here was not only effeminate, but not particularly good, either. The symmetry and balance struck me as amateurish.

But that is mere snark to deflect the overall shock I felt at seeing the video.
 
Could you imagine Revered D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones sitting still for such a thing ? Does Matthew 7:21-23 possibly apply to those responsible for this ?
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Click to expand...
 
The moral decay among the PCA leadership is pretty profound. Or maybe I'm just way out of touch. I was told by a commissioner to this year's assembly that outside he overheard a group of commissioners (from the hip progressive side was the implication) using profanity, swearing and F-bombs. He gently chided them but was told Jesus loved us and a little swearing sometimes is okay.
 
VictorBravo said:
Exactly my position and my thought. (I last "danced" in the late 70s one evening in a disco. My knee went out and I was sprawled on the floor. Everyone stood around to see what my next move would be.)
Click to expand...

Your roller skates must have been defective.
 
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