Birthday Vs. Lord's Day

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Bondman

Puritan Board Freshman
My (unbelieving) father's birthday party is this coming up Sunday. Is attending a birthday party on the Lord's Day something that the esteemed members of the PB would have trouble doing?
 

Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
My (unbelieving) father's birthday party is this coming up Sunday. Is attending a birthday party on the Lord's Day something that the esteemed members of the PB would have trouble doing?
Absolutely. Is dad a believer?

~In fact, the title says it all.
 

jaybird0827

PuritanBoard Honor Roll
I am certainly no esteemed member of the PB or anything close to it, but in answer to your question, I would strictly avoid such gatherings on the Lord's Day.

In our own family you always get to choose whether to celebrate on the Saturday prior or Monday following. Mostly we opt for the latter because it gives us something to look forward to.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
My (unbelieving) father's birthday party is this coming up Sunday. Is attending a birthday party on the Lord's Day something that the esteemed members of the PB would have trouble doing?
Matthew - it is your father...your family. What better act of compassion can you show on the Lord's Day than to model Christ to family that is unsaved? The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Go to church on Sunday and then meet with your dad and the rest of your family. Perhaps God will use this in His providence to have an effect on your father for the sake of the gospel.
 

Bondman

Puritan Board Freshman
I gotta say, I'm torn. Baptist in Crisis makes a good point. It is lawful to do good on the sabbath, and wouldn't a brief visit to my parents' home and imitating Christ there be a good thing? OTOH, if it is, where does that line of thought ever end? Then we have a sort of good intentions test to see what can be done on the sabbath?

Here is another one for you guys that think that it would not be honoring to God to visit them:

Same situation minus the birthday party. Are visits for the sake of visiting ok? Of course, any time a believer visits an unbeliever, he should be looking for opportunities to preach Christ and steer conversation to things above.

Also, pardon my ignorance and continued questions of this sort. I am newly reformed and my head is spinning with all of the numerous issues that now face me.

Also, jaybird, you actually are one of the esteemed members. Joe, on the other hand, is not. :wave:
 

Bandguy

Puritan Board Sophomore
Matthew - it is your father...your family. What better act of compassion can you show on the Lord's Day than to model Christ to family that is unsaved? The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Go to church on Sunday and then meet with your dad and the rest of your family. Perhaps God will use this in His providence to have an effect on your father for the sake of the gospel.
:agree:
 

lv1nothr

Puritan Board Freshman
As this has come up in the past with us, we've made it clear that we wouldn't attend any b/day parties or any parties on the Lord's Day, and I must say it's been respected and received better than I thought. I guess they see us practicing what we preach. Even had a family member change a niece's b/day party to a different day, now we've been able to attend! Praise God. He honors His Word.

As for the Sabbath being made for man and not man for the Sabbath, someone correct me if I am wrong, but I take that to mean that unless the Lord had given man a day set apart for His worship, we would not of ourselves take one! In other words it is His day not ours. :think:

I pray the Lord would give you grace to honor your earthly father as you strive to honor your Heavenly Father above all!

Standing ready to be corrected...:D
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
If this was my father (who is also unsaved) and he was having a birthday party, I would go. Knowing that it is the Lord's Day I would not place my father on a pedestal and take glory away from the Lord. I would go to spend time with my family. Trust me people, none of us know when the Lord is going to require our life. God does not need me to bring my father to faith, but I would like to take advantage of each opportunity to model Christ in front of him.

If it is okay to pull an ox out of the pit on the sabbath is it not even more permissable to rescue a sinner from hell by proclaiming the gospel? And whether that proclaiming is done from the pulpit of a church or the living sofa, I will take advantage of any and all opportunities.
 

Croghanite

Puritan Board Sophomore
bill,
Do you agree with the WCF?

Question 117. How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified?

Answer. The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day, [Exod 20:8,10] not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful; [Exod 16:25-28; Neh 13:15-22; Jer 17:21-22] and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to be taken up in works of necessity and mercy [Matt 11:1-13]) in the public and private exercises of God's worship: [Isa 58:13; Luke 4:16; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:1-2 Ps 92 title; Isa 66:23; Lev 23:3] and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day. [Exod 20:8; Exod 16:22,25-26,29; Luke 23:54,56; Neh 13:19][2]
Question 119. What are the sins forbidden in the fourth commandment?

Answer. The sins forbidden in the fourth commandment are, all omissions of the duties required, [Ezek 22:26] all careless, negligent, and unprofitable performing of them, and being weary of them; [Acts 20:7,9; Ezek 33:30-32; Amos 8:5; Mal 1:13] all profaning the day by idleness, and doing that which is in itself sinful; [Ezek 23:38] and by all needless works, words, and thoughts, about our worldly employments and recreations. [Jer 17:24,27; Isa 58:13]
Mac,
The party will be a gathering of people profaning Gods commandment to keep the Day Holy. To break a commandment in the name of witnessing is no good and its needless to do. Witness on the other 6 days. Tell your dad how much you love him as you explain the great importance of your convictions. Do it BEFORE the party and in person. BTW I am offended and saddened from your esteemed comment...
your the horse and thats me with the stick. I will never stop beating, never.:deadhorse:
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
bill,
Do you agree with the WCF?





Mac,
The party will be a gathering of people profaning Gods commandment to keep the Day Holy. To break a commandment in the name of witnessing is no good and its needless to do. Witness on the other 6 days. Tell your dad how much you love him as you explain the great importance of your convictions. Do it BEFORE the party and in person. BTW I am offended and saddened from your esteemed comment...
your the horse and thats me with the stick. I will never stop beating, never.:deadhorse:
Joe - I do not subscribe to the WCF. I am in basic agreement with the 1689 LBC. The LBC is similar to the WCF in regards to the sabbath. But I err on the side of mercy and compassion. I am not here to defend how I observe the sabbath. Suffice to say that going to someones home for dinner or even a birthday party is not the norm for us on the Lord's Day. Other than that I am going to refrain from further comments. Each man must act in accord with his conscience on the matter and I do not want to be the cause of my brother to stumble.

I will add that there seems to be some tension between Mac and yourself. Since you go to the same church, please settle it and don't do it in here.

Mac, may the Lord call your father to Himself. May he come to know the peace of God and may that be to your joy.
 

Blueridge Believer

Puritan Board Professor
Matthew - it is your father...your family. What better act of compassion can you show on the Lord's Day than to model Christ to family that is unsaved? The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Go to church on Sunday and then meet with your dad and the rest of your family. Perhaps God will use this in His providence to have an effect on your father for the sake of the gospel.
:agree:

Go see your Dad on his birthday and pray for him in love and compassion.
 

jaybird0827

PuritanBoard Honor Roll
...Also, jaybird, you actually are one of the esteemed members. Joe, on the other hand, is not. :wave:
:think:

Your kind words toward me notwithstanding, have you given any consideration to the latter comment in the light of such passages as [KJV]Ephesians 4:29[/KJV] and others that may apply?
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
I am certainly no esteemed member of the PB or anything close to it, but in answer to your question, I would strictly avoid such gatherings on the Lord's Day.

In our own family you always get to choose whether to celebrate on the Saturday prior or Monday following. Mostly we opt for the latter because it gives us something to look forward to.
:agree:
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Also, jaybird, you actually are one of the esteemed members. Joe, on the other hand, is not. :wave:
Uhm, I don't know if this was intentional or not...but it came across as an insult. (Giving you a chance here...I know I've been taken wrong other places)
 

ChristopherPaul

Puritan Board Senior
It seems to be the norm that anytime a discussion is started about obeying God’s Holy Law, people get up in arms and insist that exceptions must be made for the sake of witnessing and loving our neighbor.

Is not God’s way perfect? Out of gratitude we obey Him; out of a love for Him, we obey. We don’t short change our LORD for the sake of our efforts to further HIS kingdom. His kingdom will be furthered by the witness of His people showing their love by obeying His commands.

Brother, you have six days to meet with your dad and shoot the breeze as they say with family members. From those six days, 313 days per year, he should be able to see how deeply you love God and you should communicate that that love goes so far that you will not depart from God’s Holy standards even for a birthday party. He should understand, if he doesn’t pray for Him and keep the Lord’s day set apart as Holy. By all means visit and talk with the church, but idle words and worldly chatter will most likely be rampant. God’s way is perfect – keep that in mind and communicate that to your dad. If it is that important to him that you be there, he should have no problem rescheduling the party for the Saturday before or another weekend.

Don’t send the message to him that your God’s Holy image can be compromised.
 

Kevin

Puritan Board Doctor
I think my Baptist brothers are right on this one.

I was reading the gospel of John last night to the children and the passage was the healing of the man born blind. This led in our disscusion time to some talk about the sabbath and how Christ's view differed from the Jews. So this has been on my mind this morning.

Let me just say that the Sabbath was made for man and not the other way around. This is not about "shooting the breeze" with your dad or "witnessing" both of which, as was pointed out above can be done on other days, this is about showing him Honour & Respect. In my humble opinion that is certainly activity for the Sabbath.
 

Blueridge Believer

Puritan Board Professor
I think my Baptist brothers are right on this one.

I was reading the gospel of John last night to the children and the passage was the healing of the man born blind. This led in our disscusion time to some talk about the sabbath and how Christ's view differed from the Jews. So this has been on my mind this morning.

Let me just say that the Sabbath was made for man and not the other way around. This is not about "shooting the breeze" with your dad or "witnessing" both of which, as was pointed out above can be done on other days, this is about showing him Honour & Respect. In my humble opinion that is certainly activity for the Sabbath.
Isn't there some kind of commandment about honoring your father and mother?;)
 

polemic_turtle

Puritan Board Freshman
Uhm, I don't know if this was intentional or not...but it came across as an insult. (Giving you a chance here...I know I've been taken wrong other places)
This is friendly horseplay if I've ever seen any. In the Joe's first response, he said "I will pray for you good buddy." After that, when Mac said the shocking words, he put a waving smiley face, as if to say, "I know your opinion, Joe, good pal.." After that, Joe really brought a smile to my face when he said "BTW I am offended and saddened from your esteemed comment... your the horse and thats me with the stick. I will never stop beating, never. :deadhorse: "

Oh, hehe.. That's funny. "I will never stop beating, never." BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM...

I don't think any true animosity has been expressed here.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Obey God rather than man. I believe in honoring parents...but I also believe in honoring God. The sabbath is supposed to be for....
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
This is friendly horseplay if I've ever seen any. In the Joe's first response, he said "I will pray for you good buddy." After that, when Mac said the shocking words, he put a waving smiley face, as if to say, "I know your opinion, Joe, good pal.." After that, Joe really brought a smile to my face when he said "BTW I am offended and saddened from your esteemed comment... your the horse and thats me with the stick. I will never stop beating, never. :deadhorse: "

Oh, hehe.. That's funny. "I will never stop beating, never." BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM...

I don't think any true animosity has been expressed here.
okay...the smiley is why I was willing to err toward the positive.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
I sure hope it was horesplay too. That is the problem with message boards. Hard to always convey the correction emotions.

Looks like we have an even split here on our opinions regarding the sabbath. Baptists on one side and Presbyterians on the other. You'd think this was a credo-paedo thread! :lol:

Actually the issue is serious but we come down on opposite sides. We should continue to strive for the truth even when we disagree.
 

ChristopherPaul

Puritan Board Senior
Actually the issue is serious but we come down on opposite sides. We should continue to strive for the truth even when we disagree.
Yes a division is apparent.

So for those who take exception to the WCF and the LBCF on the 4th commandment, do you think attending a secular birthday party is sinful to those who do not take exception to the confessions?
 

Blueridge Believer

Puritan Board Professor
Yes a division is apparent.

So for those who take exception to the WCF and the LBCF on the 4th commandment, do you think attending a secular birthday party is sinful to those who do not take exception to the confessions?
I don't think anyone here would try to bind your conscience brother. I believe Romans 14 would cover this. If it's sin to you don't do it.
 

ChristopherPaul

Puritan Board Senior
I don't think anyone here would try to bind your conscience brother. I believe Romans 14 would cover this. If it's sin to you don't do it.

But of course. My point is there are two views on the fourth commandment. What Matthew needs to resolve is his interpretation of the fourth commandment.

Matthew, do you take exception to the confessions on this point?
 

gwine

Puritan Board Sophomore
Funny how the clear reading of the fifth commandment is sited against the clear reading of the fourth commandment.
And what does a clear reading say?
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Do no work. Don't let anyone in your family work. Keep the Sabbath holy. Nothing about getting together with family.
So let's check out Isaiah.
Isa 58:13 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;
Isa 58:14 then you shall take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
Don't go your own way. (Reminds me of a Fleetwood Mac song) Don't seek your own pleasure. Don't talk idly. We can get in more trouble here.

Well, I might be Presbyterian, but I would still go. I would love to have the chance to get together again with my family and honor my father on his birthday, but he is dead and gone. Granted, family is temporal and heaven is forever, but how you treat your family does have its consequences.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
Yes a division is apparent.

So for those who take exception to the WCF and the LBCF on the 4th commandment, do you think attending a secular birthday party is sinful to those who do not take exception to the confessions?
No, I do not believe you (as a WCF'er) would be sinning. Your conscience is convinced that attending such affairs is sinful. Don't attend them.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Gerry, can we take another twist to this "it's about family" and consequences thing? What if it's your kid brother's state football championship? Go to it? Because you know it's a "once in a lifetime thing".

Seriously, this was an issue I have seen twice. Once in my own life (at the time sports was a forbidden activity altogether by the church...please don't go there, history) and once I've seen in another couple's life where a woman let me know that they are rarely at church at certain times of the year because her boys played xxxx and her hubby felt that was important as a family.
 
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