Beveridge or Battles?
- Thread starter KMK
- Start date
- Status
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
I prefer Battles, but I'm not sure I can articulate a strong argument for its superiority. I just find that it flows better; but in places Beveridge is quite nice too.
Whitefield
Puritan Board Junior
Beveridge is good because it is open source (free to download) and a very faithful translation from the Latin.
Battles is good because he shows how the Institutes developed over the years, but he takes a little more freedom with the Latin to make it read better in the 20th century.
Battles is good because he shows how the Institutes developed over the years, but he takes a little more freedom with the Latin to make it read better in the 20th century.
Presbyterian Deacon
Puritan Board Graduate
I have them both. I prefer Beveridge
The Battles translation coupled together with the editorial notes provided by John T. McNeill makes the Westminster Press edition the superior version to own. But I'm speaking from an editorial perspective rather than a translator, because I am far too ignorant of the language to judge which is superior with respect to that aspect between the two editions.
DTK
Glenn Ferrell
Puritan Board Junior
I appreciate the notes in the Battles edition, showing changes in organization of the work over its various editions, and explaining why certain words were translated as they were. I'm glad to have acces to Beveridge online.
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
If you are speaking of translation qua translation, then you will find proponents for each of them for different reasons. Both of them are available in the inexpensive Ages collection and in Libronix, etc.
If you are speaking of the critical edition, the McNeill edition (Battles translation) is the standard that scholars use and reference from among the English translations. As has been noted, the notes in the Westminster Press edition frequently sell the two volume set, despite the high price.
Ken, unless you are using it for an academic purpose, you will probably find the Beveridge adequate for your needs and a LOT less expensive. CBD has the nice Hendrickson one volume printing for under $15 (compared to the Westminster set discounted to $64.99). Plus, it has been completely reworked with an easier to read typeset. Frankly, I find the Hendrickson volume easier on the eye than the Westminster set.
If you are speaking of the critical edition, the McNeill edition (Battles translation) is the standard that scholars use and reference from among the English translations. As has been noted, the notes in the Westminster Press edition frequently sell the two volume set, despite the high price.
Ken, unless you are using it for an academic purpose, you will probably find the Beveridge adequate for your needs and a LOT less expensive. CBD has the nice Hendrickson one volume printing for under $15 (compared to the Westminster set discounted to $64.99). Plus, it has been completely reworked with an easier to read typeset. Frankly, I find the Hendrickson volume easier on the eye than the Westminster set.
Ex Nihilo
Puritan Board Senior
At that price, I expected a fairly cheap-looking printing. I was pleasantly surprised by how nice it is!
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Frankly as I see it in layman's speak Battles is like the NIV and Beveridge is akin to the KJV.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
You guys sound like beer snobs. Is this a bit like saying Battles is like Budweiser and Beveridge is like Guinness?
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Yes
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
Actually, Richard Muller's favorite translation is the Allen, but you'd have to hunt to find that one. The only advantage that Battles has is that you can tell what section was added in which edition, through the lettering system that he introduced. Beveridge, however, translated almost all of Calvin's letters and many other of Calvin's works before he translated the Institutes. Beveridge was the better Calvin scholar. Having read a good deal of both, I find Beveridge actually makes more sense and is much more cogent and striking than Battles. If you can only afford one, go with Beveridge.
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
Wow! Talk about inside baseball! Comparing Beveridge and Battles vis a vis who was the better Calvin scholar is a little like asking whether Micky Mantle or Roger Maris was a better Yankee. I just finished a Battles book on Calvin that put his thorough knowledge of Calvin out for all to see, including a mastery of the Calvin literature in several languages. But, your recommendation for Beveridge is impressive. Lane your virtuoso erudition and surplus of academic acumen is on evident display . . . again! You be the man!
Since you have some mastery of the original, I appreciate your commendation for Beveridge. The Hendrikson printing truly is easier to read due to the clearer typeface and I plan on starting the Institutes again later this week. Since both editions are on my shelf (and in my computer), your word of support for Beveridge tips my decision. The Westminster edition was hard enough to read back in seminary in the 70s. For some reason, the typeface looks more like a copy of a copy to me as opposed to the fresh crispness of the Hendrikson.
Last edited:
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Mickey Mantle hands down...
JohnOwen007
Puritan Board Sophomore
Battles is kinda like the NIV (dynamic equivalence) and Beveridge the NASB (formal equivalence): Battles is (generally) easier to read but its Latin renderings are imprecise and even plain wrong. Beveridge is more difficult (generally) to read but his translation is more literal and consistent. (Mind you, I recently found a really BAD translation of Beveridge's in one of Calvin's commentaries). However, the Battles footnotes, references, etc. etc. make it a goldmine for hunting things out in the Institutes.
Which one? Both!
BTW John Allen's translation (which is brilliant) is available from www.archive.org (in a searchable format!).
Which one? Both!
BTW John Allen's translation (which is brilliant) is available from www.archive.org (in a searchable format!).
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
Ken,
If you want a really complete answer (and the most expensive) . . .
* Buy Beveridge as your first purchase. He is a solid translator, the Henrickson edition is easier on the eye, and it is CHEAP!
* Add Battles if you want something to reference for scholarly purposes (esp. the footnotes).
* Obtain the computer editions so that you can do electronic searching to augment your own knowledge of the material.
If you want a really complete answer (and the most expensive) . . .
* Buy Beveridge as your first purchase. He is a solid translator, the Henrickson edition is easier on the eye, and it is CHEAP!
* Add Battles if you want something to reference for scholarly purposes (esp. the footnotes).
* Obtain the computer editions so that you can do electronic searching to augment your own knowledge of the material.
Sounds good. It seems to me I saw a book by Battles about Calvin. Is there any chance that is his notes put into book form?
I am interested in the Libronix stuff but as far as I know those types of things are not available on Mac.
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
If you have Logos, the upgrade to Mac is supposed to be cheap. Or, you buy the Mac version directly: Logos Bible Software for Mac.
Logos sells their packages with differing numbers of core resources. They range from the el-cheapo package at $260 to the caddy at $1,380.
"Add ons" are extra. The Beveridge edition of the Institutes costs $35.
A less expensive way to go would be to get the $20 Ages software version which runs on Mac or PC and has . . .
John Calvin Collection Overview - AGES Software
The Ages edition has both the Beveridge AND the Battles/McNeill editions PLUS all of the commentaries, sermons, "Calvin and His Enemies," "Commentary on Senneca's De Clementia," Wileman's John Calvin - His Life, His Teaching & His Influence," "Secret Providence," "Selected Works of John Calvin - Letters, Tracts," "Sermons on Galatians, Election and Reprobation, Psalm 119, the Deity of Christ," Beza's biography of Calvin, and Calvin's "Treatise on Relics" . . . all for $20!!! Even Billy Mays or the ShamWow guy couldn't get you a better deal than that! You may even find a discounter with the Ages edition cheaper.
BTW, Ken, I checked and the Ages edition has the full Westminster text WITH footnotes by Battles. So, if you go that way, you will get both Beveridge and Battles AND all of the cool footnotes.
My suggestion: Get the Henrickson edition for reading and the Ages package for research in the Calvin corpus.
Logos sells their packages with differing numbers of core resources. They range from the el-cheapo package at $260 to the caddy at $1,380.
"Add ons" are extra. The Beveridge edition of the Institutes costs $35.
A less expensive way to go would be to get the $20 Ages software version which runs on Mac or PC and has . . .
John Calvin Collection Overview - AGES Software
The Ages edition has both the Beveridge AND the Battles/McNeill editions PLUS all of the commentaries, sermons, "Calvin and His Enemies," "Commentary on Senneca's De Clementia," Wileman's John Calvin - His Life, His Teaching & His Influence," "Secret Providence," "Selected Works of John Calvin - Letters, Tracts," "Sermons on Galatians, Election and Reprobation, Psalm 119, the Deity of Christ," Beza's biography of Calvin, and Calvin's "Treatise on Relics" . . . all for $20!!! Even Billy Mays or the ShamWow guy couldn't get you a better deal than that! You may even find a discounter with the Ages edition cheaper.
BTW, Ken, I checked and the Ages edition has the full Westminster text WITH footnotes by Battles. So, if you go that way, you will get both Beveridge and Battles AND all of the cool footnotes.
My suggestion: Get the Henrickson edition for reading and the Ages package for research in the Calvin corpus.
- Status
Similar threads
