Being out of town on the Lord's Day

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Abeard

Abeard

Puritan Board Freshman
I am wondering what you all do for meals when you are staying out of town on a Sunday, and there are no Chriatian brethren to take you in for meals?

Context: we are going out of town for a memorial service in a couple of weeks and will be staying in a hotel. Any advice/insight as to how we should approach eating without breaking the Sabbath?
 
Alex:

What I have done is purchase food from a local store for the next day and consume it in my room (often there is a little fridge for milk and other perishables). Or, if you are at a hotel for a few days, take some extra food the previous day from the breakfast they provide. My experience is that the staff don't mind, particularly if you inform them why.
 
Several options in the US.

at the 'not cheap' end of the scale, the mid range suite hotels that cater to expense account travelers have fridges, two burner cooktops, dishwashers, and microwaves in the rooms. Due to the clientele, they will frequently have lower rates on weekends. (Most of the regulars arrive on a Monday and check out Friday morning). Homewood Suites (Hilton) , Residence Inn (Marriott) are examples. (It appears that both chains have some locations in Canada, but I'd recommend independent research).

And at the middle range properties:
A number of chains offer rooms with mini-fridges and microwaves - some as a matter of course, others on a more limited basis. Frozen dinners and shelf stable items are an option there.
 
There is nothing wrong with eating in your room but why would it be wrong to just partake in the continental breakfast and dine later in the hotel restaurant? If they are open to shelter on the Lord’s Day why is wrong to feed people? You’re not staying under an overpass on Sunday and I certainly don’t think that is sinful.
 
Your are ALREADY paying for a room on a Sunday, so you are breaking the Sabbath just by staying at a hotel on a Sunday if you want to quibble.

Eating is usually a necessity. I have no qualms about eating out while traveling on a Sunday.

You could also sleep in your car, if you were REALLY strict on the Sabbath rules.
 
I am away from home a few times a year on the Lord's Day. Here is what I've done over the years:

First, prioritize worship and fellowship in a local church. I find a church to worship at beforehand, and often the best part of being away can be a time to intentionally meet other Christians. I try to look for a church with an afternoon/evening service and at least one meal, which surprisingly I've been able to make work more than one might expect. If it is a church which understands the importance of the Lord's Day, I'll ask if someone could help accommodate for lunch. I've been really blessed in asking this, with families inviting me to their homes for a meal or two or even one or two nights with them (before and after the Lord's Day). My wife and I have been willing to do the same, and have even hosted someone from the PB for two nights back when we had quite meager accommodations. Many of the connections I have made have been through this board.

Next, if I am ever out of town for personal reasons, I usually use something like a VRBO rental. These are usually comparable in price to a hotel room, but do not have a large staff and you are basically on your own unless you contact them. You also generally have a kitchen. This allows us to basically rent a condo or apartment without imposing on others during our stay, especially the Lord's Day, and have a bit more freedom. Now sometimes I've stayed in a hotel room, and I make sure that I check in before the Lord's Day starts and check out after it ends and try to avoid any undue work from the hotel staff. In both cases, I will bring food for any meals I will be eating so as not to purchase food or cause those in the service industry to work in preparation. In a VRBO condo, it's easy to have "normal" food available; in a hotel, it's often lighter fair (like shelf stable soups, peanut butter/honey sandwiches, etc.).

I also do not travel itself on the Lord's Day, except between places locally (i.e., to worship, to do acts of mercy, etc.). However, I will sometimes travel a bit further than I do when I am at home to worship while away from home if I can find a suitable place to worship. But other times, it's been right around the corner (My wife and I were able to walk to IPC when we stayed in Savannah!).

In general though, don't forget prioritizing worship and fellowship. Sometimes I cannot find a Reformed church to worship at, but I still get out and worship and spend all the time I can with other Christians on the Lord's Day. Try to never look at the Sabbath as an excuse to remain holed up in a hotel room.

13 “If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

14 Then you will take delight in the LORD,
And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth;
And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.” (Isaiah 58:13-14 NASB)
 
When I stay at a backpacker's hostel on a Sabbath here is what I do for meals:

1) Eat the breakfast they provide if they provide a free or cheap breakfast. If not, eat my own cereal.

2) If I am not able to go to anyone's house on the Sabbath afternoon, I buy food on the Saturday night (usually a frozen pizza or something of that description) and cook it that afternoon/evening. I would not frequent a restaurant/shop other than a hotel's catering facilities on a Sabbath, as it is unnecessary. Besides, I no longer stay in hotels as they are too expensive.
 
In my experience, we may really need to be away on the Lord's day or we may choose for enjoyment to be away. The latter is badly abused in the modern church. The former calls for a recognition of a need for rest and food. Yes, we can sometimes arrange to buy food ahead of time, but even in the days when more establishments closed on Sundays, hotels with their food service would remain open, and a town might have a place open with a limited menu.

To avoid missing worship in our local church, I have sometimes had the car fueled and packed (including a cooler) then left after our services were concluded. If we do have to stop for meals, and to engage a hotel room, I do so with a clear conscience. The 700-mile trip to the Atlanta area to care for my aging parents took us away from our home church too much as it was, and such arrangements often enabled us to miss far fewer.
 
This is going to sound woefully ignorant, but please keep in mind that I am a new member, and new to the reformed way of thinking and doing things, being a Baptist both before and since my salvation. I ask with sincerity and honesty wanting to understand, not to judge or create controversy.

Do many/most reformed and/or Presbyterians believe it is wrong to cook a meal on the Sabbath? If so, why?

This is definitely new to me. Thanks for any replies.
 
It may be necessary to stay in a hotel room over the Sabbath and the innkeeper is not (necessarily) sinning in letting rooms over the Sabbath, since people do need rest and refreshment every day. However, the Sabbath should never be thought of as a day of commerce or gain (Nehemiah 13:15-22). Great care should be taken by all to minimize the burden of work upon themselves and others, in the hopes that fewer and fewer would need to be engaged in work upon the Lord's Day.

Ideally, the godly innkeeper would set out everything the guests might need for the day on the night before the Sabbath (like baskets with complimentary food and drink, extra towels, extra toiletries, etc.). On the Sabbath, he would not clean rooms, not take in new boarders (except in the case of emergency), not retain a full staff; in other words, he would do everything he could to keep the hotel open with the fewest number of people working.

In the real world, most hotels don't operate this way and the Lord's Day is "business as usual". It simply won't do for the Christian to say, "Everyone's already at work anyway, so why not enjoy the omelette station?" It won't do for the Christian to excuse themselves by saying they didn't personally ask the staff to be at work on the Lord's Day as they line up for the hot coffee, freshly made by the hotel employee, because standing in line for the coffee and making use of the labor of these people's hands is asking them to be there, implicitly. Far better to purchase your own provisions the day before, eat in your room between the services you might attend, and put the notice on your door denying turn-down service.

Frankly, I'm surprised to see there are some here advocating for the actual patronage of restaurants or delivery services upon the Lord's Day.
 
ccravens said:
Do many/most reformed and/or Presbyterians believe it is wrong to cook a meal on the Sabbath? If so, why?
Click to expand...

I don’t think so, assuming you mean coming home after church and preparing lunch. Even microwaving is a form of cooking. Cooking is often necessary for eating. Now having said that, we (my family) often do our major cooking on Saturday. However, we don’t do that as a Lord’s Day “requirement” but rather as a Lord’s Day “aid” ( I hope that makes since, if not ask for clarity).

Eating out and other business transactions should be avoided on the Lord’s Day because we are commanded to rest from our worldly labors and recreations. Eating out on the Lord’s Day causes others to serve you, which in the very least is hypocritical of a Christian who should be striving to obey the 4th Commandment. However, some circumstances make purchases necessary. I hope that helps.

Just because one is already breaking the sabbath (like a hotel stay) does not give reason to break it in more ways. I do not say this lightly as one who has a job that requires hotel on some Sundays (though rare, this still does not sit well with my soul, but I do not let it ruin the day or my worship on that day). However, we still need to be more focused on how we can make the day Holy even if we are in the midst of the abnormal circumstances that sometimes fall on a Sunday.

@OP
I totally disagree with the advise on this thread by some to eat out (use Uber eats????!!!!! No Way).

Buy your provisions the day before. Shelf stable items are great. Use hotel fridge for perishables. Use hotel microwave to reheat. You could always consider a fast as well.
 
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Grant Jones said:
Just because one is already breaking the sabbath (like a hotel stay).
Click to expand...

That’s just the rub. Not all share that belief.

I probably derailed the thread early on. The op clearly doesn’t share my view. I apologize for interfering and should have let those that believe the same as he does give the advice.
 
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Use of a hotel or restaurant are not necessarily breaking the fourth commandment if they are of necessity. A lot obviously can go into determining if it is necessity but folks should be able to figure that out. I don't have the citations to confirm but this was I recall was a focus of the Sabbath laws passed by parliament at the time of the Westminster assembly. I would guess though the parallel they saw to the inn staff was the staff of the large houses of the gentry and noblemen. One sees in works of the time like Bownd's that ministers encouraged the reduction of demands on staff that day and the parliament via laws sought the same thing in allowing the serving of food for guests and normal patrons (folks who didn't make their own meals at home any day of the week but always ate at the inn/tavern I'm guessing) and discouraged being more widely open for business otherwise that day.

It's been a long time since I've traveled over a weekend that I recall but I think the goal would be the same as above, to minimize our footprint and demands on staff. If one has the appliances in the room and can plan ahead, then one has more leeway to adjust meals to better suit the Lord's day.

Parakaleo said:
It may be necessary to stay in a hotel room over the Sabbath and the innkeeper is not (necessarily) sinning in letting rooms over the Sabbath, since people do need rest and refreshment every day. However, the Sabbath should never be thought of as a day of commerce or gain (Nehemiah 13:15-22). Great care should be taken by all to minimize the burden of work upon themselves and others, in the hopes that fewer and fewer would need to be engaged in work upon the Lord's Day.
Click to expand...
 
ZackF said:
That’s just the rub. Not all share that belief.

I probably derailed the tread early on. The op clearly doesn’t share my view. I apologize for interfearing and should have let those that believe the same as he does give the advice.
Click to expand...
Zak,

No need to apologize brother. I do not think you derailed. I did not intend my statement to be a blanket. I think under certain circumstances hotel stay and even eating out can be done without a Lord’s Day violation so long as they are done as a “necessity” and/or “mercy. I hope that makes since.
 
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ccravens said:
This is going to sound woefully ignorant, but please keep in mind that I am a new member, and new to the reformed way of thinking and doing things, being a Baptist both before and since my salvation. I ask with sincerity and honesty wanting to understand, not to judge or create controversy.

Do many/most reformed and/or Presbyterians believe it is wrong to cook a meal on the Sabbath? If so, why?

This is definitely new to me. Thanks for any replies.
Click to expand...
It is not wrong to cook a meal on the Sabbath; it is wrong to do unnecessary work, and to make others do so. Someone has to be at work on the Sabbath for a store or restaurant to be open, so a Christian would make every effort not do any shopping or eating out that day.
Our Lord made it clear, though, that errands of mercy and necessity are lawful--plucking grain on the Sabbath as they passed through the fields, pulling oxen out of ditches, etc. So if you find yourself on a journey, and the children are hungry, and you must either buy food or make them all suffer (sometimes no amount of pre-planning is enough), by all means buy food. God never meant Sabbath-keeping to be taken to the extreme of sinning against yourself or your family for its sake. "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."
And do not call it Sabbath-breaking, as if it were a sin excused by circumstance just this once: it was not Sabbath breaking for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath; it was not Sabbath-breaking for the Pharisee to come to the aid of his ass; it is not Sabbath-breaking to do an errand of necessity like securing an hotel room to shelter your family rather than let them freeze out of doors on a Sabbath night. That would be the sin.
So, while making all reasonable efforts to not have to shop or travel on the Lord's Day, if you find yourself caught by circumstance or necessity, do it with a good conscience, even as David took of the shewbread when he and his young men were hungry.
But certainly you should not make it a habit, nor treat lightly the need to prepare in advance so you won't have to make others work, and so that you need not work more than is necessary ( I like to eat simply, often just leftovers, rather than cook elaborately or fire up the grill on the Lord's Day).

EDIT: I see that while I was writing others posted essentially the same thing. Sorry for the repeat.
 
Thank you for all the responses!

Pergamum and Zach you are right, there is a inconsistency about paying for a service at a hotel and refraining from going out to eat.

I have found a hospitality network called "candle in the window" where believers in Christ will Lodge you and your family if you just pay for a membership. Seems like a way better alternative to a hotel.
 
Abeard said:
Thank you for all the responses!

Pergamum and Zach you are right, there is a inconsistency about paying for a service at a hotel and refraining from going out to eat.

I have found a hospitality network called "candle in the window" where believers in Christ will Lodge you and your family if you just pay for a membership. Seems like a way better alternative to a hotel.
Click to expand...

That does sound interesting, do they have a website?
 
Abeard said:
I have found a hospitality network called "candle in the window" where believers in Christ will Lodge you and your family if you just pay for a membership. Seems like a way better alternative to a hotel.
Click to expand...

No way I'd go to sleep with an unvetted stranger in my house. Sounds like a good way for your family to meet good church officers like Dennis Rader.
 
Edward said:
No way I'd go to sleep with an unvetted stranger in my house. Sounds like a good way for your family to meet good church officers like Dennis Rader.
Click to expand...
Hebrews13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
 
Abeard said:
Hebrews13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Click to expand...
I don't think I would personally feel safe staying in a strangers house. It's not wrong to be concerned for your family's safety.

I think having strangers stay in your house was much more common at the time that was written, and I wonder if things like theft, sexual abuse, etc, happened.
 
nickipicki123 said:
I think having strangers stay in your house was much more common at the time that was written, and I wonder if things like theft, sexual abuse, etc, happened.
Click to expand...

"22 As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, worthless fellows, surrounded the house, beating on the door. And they said to the old man, the master of the house, “Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him.” 23 And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, “No, my brothers, do not act so wickedly; since this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing.24 Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out now. Violate them and do with them what seems good to you, but against this man do not do this outrageous thing.” 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine and made her go out to them. And they knew her and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. 26 And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man's house where her master was, until it was light." - Judges 19:22-26

"What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9
 
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Reformed Bookworm said:
"22 As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, worthless fellows, surrounded the house, beating on the door. And they said to the old man, the master of the house, “Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him.” 23 And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, “No, my brothers, do not act so wickedly; since this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing.24 Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out now. Violate them and do with them what seems good to you, but against this man do not do this outrageous thing.” 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine and made her go out to them. And they knew her and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. 26 And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man's house where her master was, until it was light." - Judges 19:22-26

"What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9
Click to expand...
But that was the men of Sodom... Not the strangers visiting themselves.

I'm just not comfortable with complete strangers staying in my house, and I especially wouldn't be if I had kids. If it was, say, a friend of a friend I think I'd be more open. The key word is *unvetted*

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Reformed Bookworm said:
"22 As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, worthless fellows, surrounded the house, beating on the door. And they said to the old man, the master of the house, “Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him.” 23 And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, “No, my brothers, do not act so wickedly; since this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing.24 Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out now. Violate them and do with them what seems good to you, but against this man do not do this outrageous thing.” 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine and made her go out to them. And they knew her and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. 26 And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man's house where her master was, until it was light." - Judges 19:22-26

"What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9
Click to expand...
Sorry, I didn't see the citation. I was thinking of the similar story in Genesis. Still in that case it wasn't the stranger who was raping the man's daughter. The man willingly gave up his daughter to be raped.

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