Baucham: Our concept of race is not biblical, its artificial.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Junior
A mixed-up view of race seriously damaging our country.

Candace Owens
Confession: GeorgeFloyd is neither a martyr or a hero. But I hope his family gets justice. (18 minutes)

I have studied statistics over the years and I agree with Candace
 

Wretched Man

Puritan Board Freshman
A mixed-up view of race seriously damaging our country.

Candace Owens
Confession: GeorgeFloyd is neither a martyr or a hero. But I hope his family gets justice. (18 minutes)

I have studied statistics over the years and I agree with Candace
I suspect the most frustrated people in all this are the blacks who want to live peaceably with others and don’t accept these false, race-baiting narratives, yet are lumped in with and pressured by the BLM crowd.
 

JTB.SDG

Puritan Board Sophomore
I listened to the entire Candace interview. It was very interesting. At the same time, it seems there aren't very many black people or black Christians echoing this (I could be wrong, that's just my impression). I'd be interested to hear a larger sample size of what the black Christian community feels about all this.

It seems to me there are two extremes that aren't right. The one extreme is the one Candace seems to reference. But the other extreme is people like us being dismissive about the whole thing. I tend to cringe at BOTH.
 

Wretched Man

Puritan Board Freshman
It seems to me there are two extremes that aren't right. The one extreme is the one Candace seems to reference. But the other extreme is people like us being dismissive about the whole thing. I tend to cringe at BOTH.
I’d be curious who you’re referring to when you mention “people like us”. I doubt there are many people on any side who have been dismissive of the police officer who senselessly sat on George Floyd’s neck for 9 mins. The guy should be charged for murder and I think most would agree. What is most frustrating though is how the race baiters use this as one more excuse to continue fanning flames on the whole racial tension.

And all these incidents seem to involve recurring dynamics. Some criminal engaging in criminal activity acts belligerent towards police, resists arrest or attacks them to the point where he has to be restrained or shot at. Subsequently, the initial narrative the media portrays is some “good, family man just minding his own business” who was profiled and racially targeted by white police manifesting the supposed white supremest system. And anyone who tries to “dismiss” this is racist...

I am so sick and tired of this.
 

a mere housewife

Not your cup of tea
The man who contracts to do our lawn (who has become a friend) told me today that as a black Christian, he prays for Derek Chavin that God would forgive him and that he would be filled with the love of Christ.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Just to be contrarian: Yes, we are one human race and one blood. But the concepts of racial and ethnic differences are rooted in reality. There are many physiological differences between different blocs of people. This doesn't mean they are all not saveable before God, nor does it mean that their ontological worth is not all the same, but neither does it mean they are all alike and with the same gifts and weaknesses as others.
 
Last edited:

Wretched Man

Puritan Board Freshman
Just to be contrarian: Yes, we are one human race and one blood. But the concepts of racial and ethnic differences is rooted in reality. There are many physiological differences between different blocs of people. This doesn't mean they are all not saveable before God, nor does it mean that their ontological worth is not all the same, but neither does it mean they are all alike and with the same gifts and weaknesses as others.
I did think of Jeremiah 13:23 when listening to Vodie Baucham’s speech in the OP...
 

Reformed Covenanter

Puritanboard Commissioner
Just to be contrarian: Yes, we are one human race and one blood. But the concepts of racial and ethnic differences is rooted in reality. There are many physiological differences between different blocs of people. This doesn't mean they are all not saveable before God, nor does it mean that their ontological worth is not all the same, but neither does it mean they are all alike and with the same gifts and weaknesses as others.
Agreed. The assumption that race is a social construct is partly what led to the notion that gender is a social construct. No. In both cases, the differences are biological facts, not social constructs. The differences between the sub-races of the human race do not make any of them less than human, but the differences still exist. And before anyone asks, no, I am not saying that inter-racial marriage is inherently sinful, nor am I saying that all people who live in the same geographical region need to be of the same racial background, nor am I saying that anyone ought to be oppressed on account of their race. All that I am saying is that there are minor differences among the sub-races that comprise the human race which are rooted in empirical reality.
 

JTB.SDG

Puritan Board Sophomore
I’d be curious who you’re referring to when you mention “people like us”.
When I say dismissive I mean dismissive of those who feel the need to protest. I'm obviously not a fan of the violent sort. But as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color. That's all I meant.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Junior
When I say dismissive I mean dismissive of those who feel the need to protest. I'm obviously not a fan of the violent sort. But as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color. That's all I meant.
This is more of a rant than a response to your statements.

You said, "as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color." And why does skin pigment make any difference? It doesn't. It is the culture that is different--very different.

78% of blacks that claim to be protestants believe in abortion at some level. 75% of blacks are now born out of wedlock. And I don't mean married at one time, but the father has left. I mean not married at all. And more black babies are aborted than are born alive. Aborted at a rate three times that of whites. So much for Black Lives Matter. What chance do these children have to become useful members of society? Very little. They are told over and over that they are victims. Victims of all sorts of things, but especially victims of white privilege. Many blacks are racists to the extreme. They have been told over and over again, mostly by white democrats and many prophets of there own, that they are entitled to practically every basic need that other cultures work for. They should be encouraged to work harder than their white counterparts, but to say that labels one a racist.

Yesterday I did some research from FBI statistics and then normalized the data to adjust for population differences. Do you know that blacks per capita are murdered at a rate of 4.71 times more than their white counterparts? And whites rarely commit the murder. In 2016 only 243 blacks were killed by whites. Nearly all the rest were murdered by other blacks.

What I say next, I have never heard a single person say, but I will. Black culture is under the judgment of God. Of course, there are secondary causes, but to concentrate on those causes and leave God out of it is a colossal error. They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway. God is merciful.
 

JTB.SDG

Puritan Board Sophomore
This is more of a rant than a response to your statements.

You said, "as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color." And why does skin pigment make any difference? It doesn't. It is the culture that is different--very different.

78% of blacks that claim to be protestants believe in abortion at some level. 75% of blacks are now born out of wedlock. And I don't mean married at one time, but the father has left. I mean not married at all. And more black babies are aborted than are born alive. Aborted at a rate three times that of whites. So much for Black Lives Matter. What chance do these children have to become useful members of society? Very little. They are told over and over that they are victims. Victims of all sorts of things, but especially victims of white privilege. Many blacks are racists to the extreme. They have been told over and over again, mostly by white democrats and many prophets of there own, that they are entitled to practically every basic need that other cultures work for. They should be encouraged to work harder than their white counterparts, but to say that labels one a racist.

Yesterday I did some research from FBI statistics and then normalized the data to adjust for population differences. Do you know that blacks per capita are murdered at a rate of 4.71 times more than their white counterparts? And whites rarely commit the murder. In 2016 only 243 blacks were killed by whites. Nearly all the rest were murdered by other blacks.

What I say next, I have never heard a single person say, but I will. Black culture is under the judgment of God. Of course, there are secondary causes, but to concentrate on those causes and leave God out of it is a colossal error. They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway. God is merciful.
Ed,

I can assume that your grandfather (or great grandfather) wasn't a slave.

There is history you and I can't understand, being white.

That's all I'm saying.

I realize the vast majority of people here disagree. That's fine.

I would just appreciate to hear especially from my colored Christian brothers and sisters their thoughts on what's going on.

Blessings.
 

arapahoepark

Puritan Board Graduate
Ed,

I can assume that your grandfather (or great grandfather) wasn't a slave.

There is history you and I can't understand, being white.

That's all I'm saying.

I realize the vast majority of people here disagree. That's fine.

I would just appreciate to hear especially from my colored Christian brothers and sisters their thoughts on what's going on.

Blessings.
Colored meaning what? Black only?
 

B.L.

Puritan Board Freshman
My church is doing a summer series through the Psalms and today my pastor preached a sermon on Psalm 17 and the message in its entirety was about systemic racism in the U.S. with the obvious focus being on George Floyd and the protests of the past week. I've been disappointed that nearly everyone has turned the tragic event that happened into a conversation on racism instead of on police brutality. Derek Chauvin abused his position of authority and killed George Floyd; however, I haven't seen any factual information come out indicating the awful event was racially motivated and yet the discussions have been mostly about racism. Perhaps information will come to light later indicating Chauvin was in fact a racist...who knows. Maybe Tou Thao, the Laotian police officer on the scene was also a racist...who knows. But to make this entirely about racism without proof is slander. Racism is a terrible sin. We shouldn't be quick to accuse people of committing this sin without there being proof. Christians of all people need to be cautious thinkers in this area and not be ruled by emotion.

I grieve with those who are grieving and I weep with those who are weeping...my heart is heavy.
 

ZackF

Puritan Board Graduate
This is more of a rant than a response to your statements.

You said, "as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color." And why does skin pigment make any difference? It doesn't. It is the culture that is different--very different.
If one digs a little he'll find that the various statistics describing black and white births today as a whole reflect a much graver situation than that of either race in 1960 and especially before then. Whatever 'community' that so happens to be under judgment now, none are escaping it indefinitely.
 

a mere housewife

Not your cup of tea
I'm pretty sure a lot of communities are experiencing some judgment right now, including the church.

But as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color. That's all I meant.
Jon, I understood what you meant. That's why I posted what I did above, though I should have quoted your message.

Greg (the friend I quoted above) said some other things too, about what he has personally witnessed of real racism problems in his lifetime -- things involving the KKK (I remember things involving the KKK in my area growing up and making the news in my own lifetime). He also said that the police have a really hard job and it probably gets to some of them. He supports the protests but not the violence. He said we all have so many forms of hate in our heart until the love of Christ enters us. But it was most helpful to me that he said he is praying for Mr. Chauvin. I have been so troubled this week. All our justice is so partial. And our efforts at it seem to bring about a situation where we are just focusing our partiality and hypocrisy in another direction. And I mean this about me, about every last one of us. Not that we can stop trying. But we aren't doing it very well. I was comforted by other things I read, and even by the flowers in my garden that our injustice will be gone someday and there will be a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

But I had forgotten that there is something even more difficult to achieve, and more incredible, more noble, more present in the broken state of things than justice -- and more transcendent hereafter. There is mercy. I'm so glad that yesterday my brother reminded me.
 

Stephen L Smith

Moderator
Staff member
They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway. God is merciful.
There is history you and I can't understand, being white.

That's all I'm saying.
Colored meaning what? Black only?
Friends, I am not really qualified to speak on the situation in the USA but I live in a country that has gained worldwide respect for genuine attempts to bring about racial harmony. I make that statement with some qualification because some of this harmony has been 'politically correct', and my country in general has moved away from its Christian heritage. For example I mentioned this countries evil abortion law which recently went through Parliament.

When New Zealand was colonized over 200 years ago, there was no doubt Maori land was taken off the Maori, often by Government force. Over the centuries this created a festering sore which Governments of the past 50 years or so have attempted to rectify. Am I saying the Maori were innocent and Europeans were guilty? No! Prior to European settlement Maori were a barbaric people who practiced cannibalism. They had a cultural practice of utu - revenge killing. Although some Europeans did steal Maori land, there is a tremendous history here of Missionaries coming from the United Kingdom to New Zealand with the gospel. Many Maori were soundly converted and left their pagan ways. The missionaries had the spiritual interests of the Maori at heart and treated them kindly.

This has taught me that it is right to seek racial harmony as appropriate. It is right to correct past wrongs. Obviously there is a fine line here because I am not responsible for the racial wrongs of 200 years ago. But I do acknowledge the wrongs of Maori unjustly losing their land. But in the final analysis it is the gospel preached with power that brings repentance, change and racial harmony.

I have just been listening to four powerful sermons by Dr M Lloyd-Jones on 1 Thess 1:5 " because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction." It has strengthened my conviction that the gospel needs to come to cour various nations in Word, and also the power of the Holy Spirit.

I highly recommend these four sermons by Dr Lloyd-Jones
 

Jo_Was

Puritan Board Freshman
I want to reign in some biology assumptions here. Race is a social construct. Race is not biological as we talk about it today (which really has inputted ethnicity to be biological). Just as "gender" has been conflated with "sex" in terminology and connotation recently, I think many do the same with "ethnicity" and "race." Much of the "divergence" in biological "race" (or, in other words...the minute, statistically insignificant percentage of genes that diverge to give me more melanin and darker hair than someone else) is over inflated. It is a common misconception for many things about humans that we attribute to genetics what is often more nuanced and flavored with environmental factors (that nature vs nurture...people often state nature what is usually more nurture). This idea that there are substantial, biological differences is already shaky based on how complicated we know genes even within a family generation (mother/father to child) are, much less in a world of increasing globalization and a nation (America) with so much genetic interbreeding that these "differences" are not able to be applied so monolithically. I think some of the simplest way to prove this as faulty reasoning is in looking at health outcomes, many of which we often attribute to large groups of people. You will find that health outcomes of [insert ethnic group here] in America is going to be different than their "genetically similar" counterparts in a home nation. (Think: obesity or cholesterol as some big ticket items). (Note: Not saying health data is not helpful, but it helps to know it in context, and the groups to which one belongs). One of my other favorite (and more fun) examples is how Dutch people went from being the shortest people in the world to the tallest people in the world with the advent of industrialization--clearly a matter of genetics being bolstered by nurture and not just "Dutch people are tall thanks to genetics alone" or "Dutch people are natural basketball players."

A lot of our predispositions, certainly, have something to do with genes. But just as I have before talked on this board the "astrology/fortune-telling" nature of DNA tests to "tell one who they are" -- so too I believe it is folly that we often over-exaggerate the role of genes and instead use them as forecasting the potential of a person--physical, mental, emotional, etc. That's just simply not how it works.

I am not to say all that in order to be "color blind" or to say that there are not ethnic/cultural differences. But, as alluded to, ethnicity/culture is not necessarily based on "race" or biology (though that is correlated because of migration patterns of people in the world, so certainly it often is closely tied and has been for much of human history).

I also think, oddly enough, as I dwelled on several Voddie Baucham talks on the subject and my own thoughts, that I have found that the way we talk about race, especially in recent times in this country, has abstracted race even further from specific ethnic groups or cultural identities to really just skin color. And stereotypes and monolithic assumptions to whole groups of people just based on skin color, not even just culture . All black people are not the same ethnicity and do not share the same culture. All Asians, not even all Filipinos or all Chinese or all Indians, share the same ethnicity or culture (ironically, even genetics diverge in these groups!!). Yet, we are abstracting more and more to monolithic groups that even the SJW who demands all voices be heard, essentially erases the voices of many ethnic groups at once and subsumes us all into categories of simply color. It's a dangerous trail to get on. As Baucham notes: there is a ditch on either side, and I hope we as Christians do not stumble to either way, which I think is a fear of many. I have seen many churches and church people dip their toes in either ditch.

I appreciated this talk on Ethnic Gnosticism that Voddie made, to which I alluded to above:
 
Last edited:

py3ak

They're stalling and plotting against me
Staff member
Black culture is under the judgment of God. Of course, there are secondary causes, but to concentrate on those causes and leave God out of it is a colossal error. They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway.
Would you please name a culture that is not under the judgment of God?
 

ZackF

Puritan Board Graduate
@Jo_Was thank you. I appreciated the information you supplied a few years ago about the genetic tests people have been taking. This is insightful as well.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Junior
Would you please name a culture that is not under the judgment of God?
Can I answer a question with some questions? Are you saying that all cultures are treated equally by God? Was the Judgment of God on Israel the same as his judgment on Judah? Nations are simply moral persons, so I guess I could ask about individuals too. We're Jacob, and Esau treated equally? As far as that goes, are any two people treated identically by God?

I think it's pretty safe to say that the once more Christian America is under greater condemnation for the sin of abortion then China.
To whom much is given much will be required?

I've already mentioned that the absolute predestination of God includes secondary cause. If not the judgment of God on the Black culture, then what? Are they an inferior race?
 

JimmyH

Puritan Board Senior
Ed,

I can assume that your grandfather (or great grandfather) wasn't a slave.

There is history you and I can't understand, being white.

That's all I'm saying.

I realize the vast majority of people here disagree. That's fine.

I would just appreciate to hear especially from my colored Christian brothers and sisters their thoughts on what's going on.

Blessings.
Y'know, I'm one who thought Candace Owens' 'rant' was great. On the money. Sure, the guy was unjustly murdered, I'm with that, and think the cop should be prosecuted.

Shifting gears ... I grew up in the segregated south. I'm 71 years old, have seen white/colored drinking fountains, bathrooms, all of that stuff.

I've seen racial prejudice in action in Florida where I grew up, and in Mississippi where I spent time with relatives in the '60s. I'm glad institutionalized racism ended.

Anyone who says it hasn't is ignoring what it was then, as opposed to now.

We've had a two term black president of the USA. Congressmen and women, senators, supreme court justices ... Brain surgeons, CEOs, black people demonstrating excellence in many fields. They had the opportunity formerly denied them.

The human condition of tribalism still exists, but that is another issue, and cannot be legislated away ... only the Holy Spirit can change human hearts.

I could go on and on, but I expect you get my drift ... as for slavery ... My mother's side of the family was Russian/Jewish.

My ancestors were slaves for 400 years in Egypt, 70 years in Babylon.

Nobody is asking for reperations .
 

Andrew35

Puritan Board Freshman
I want to reign in some biology assumptions here. Race is a social construct. Race is not biological as we talk about it today (which really has inputted ethnicity to be biological). Just as "gender" has been conflated with "sex" in terminology and connotation recently, I think many do the same with "ethnicity" and "race." Much of the "divergence" in biological "race" (or, in other words...the minute, statistically insignificant percentage of genes that diverge to give me more melanin and darker hair than someone else) is over inflated. It is a common misconception for many things about humans that we attribute to genetics what is often more nuanced and flavored with environmental factors (that nature vs nurture...people often state nature what is usually more nurture). This idea that there are substantial, biological differences is already shaky based on how complicated we know genes even within a family generation (mother/father to child) are, much less in a world of increasing globalization and a nation (America) with so much genetic interbreeding that these "differences" are not able to be applied so monolithically. I think some of the simplest way to prove this as faulty reasoning is in looking at health outcomes, many of which we often attribute to large groups of people. You will find that health outcomes of [insert ethnic group here] in America is going to be different than their "genetically similar" counterparts in a home nation. (Think: obesity or cholesterol as some big ticket items). (Note: Not saying health data is not helpful, but it helps to know it in context, and the groups to which one belongs). One of my other favorite (and more fun) examples is how Dutch people went from being the shortest people in the world to the tallest people in the world with the advent of industrialization--clearly a matter of genetics being bolstered by nurture and not just "Dutch people are tall thanks to genetics alone" or "Dutch people are natural basketball players."

A lot of our predispositions, certainly, have something to do with genes. But just as I have before talked on this board the "astrology/fortune-telling" nature of DNA tests to "tell one who they are" -- so too I believe it is folly that we often over-exaggerate the role of genes and instead use them as forecasting the potential of a person--physical, mental, emotional, etc. That's just simply not how it works.

I am not to say all that in order to be "color blind" or to say that there are not ethnic/cultural differences. But, as alluded to, ethnicity/culture is not necessarily based on "race" or biology (though that is correlated because of migration patterns of people in the world, so certainly it often is closely tied and has been for much of human history).

I also think, oddly enough, as I dwelled on several Voddie Baucham talks on the subject and my own thoughts, that I have found that the way we talk about race, especially in recent times in this country, has abstracted race even further from specific ethnic groups or cultural identities to really just skin color. And stereotypes and monolithic assumptions to whole groups of people just based on skin color, not even just culture . All black people are not the same ethnicity and do not share the same culture. All Asians, not even all Filipinos or all Chinese or all Indians, share the same ethnicity or culture (ironically, even genetics diverge in these groups!!). Yet, we are abstracting more and more to monolithic groups that even the SJW who demands all voices be heard, essentially erases the voices of many ethnic groups at once and subsumes us all into categories of simply color. It's a dangerous trail to get on. As Baucham notes: there is a ditch on either side, and I hope we as Christians do not stumble to either way, which I think is a fear of many. I have seen many churches and church people dip their toes in either ditch.

I appreciated this talk on Ethnic Gnosticism that Voddie made, to which I alluded to above:
Spot on.

I believe if you want to go purely on genetics, there are roughly 5 (or 6? I forget) major genetic clusters around the world. Trouble is, of course, in border areas you get mixed genetics. This is even pre-globalization. So the notion of a "race" becomes very difficult to apply in many cases. (E.g., what race are Uyghurs, exactly? Indians [from India] are actually Caucasian. Northern Chinese and Southern Chinese are actually different ethnic groups, etc.)

Then, in the US, as Jo mentioned, you get a real genetic party: "African"-Americans on average have from 25-35% European DNA. Puerto Ricans (like myself, on my mother's side) have Spanish, African, Native America, and even Jewish ancestry. If you've ever taken an ancestry test, you may have discovered you were far more diverse than you thought you were.

In light of all this, the concept of "race" as we use it is highly problematic and based more on outmoded science than on authentic differences between peoples.
 
Last edited:

a mere housewife

Not your cup of tea
I could go on and on, but I expect you get my drift ... as for slavery ... My mother's side of the family was Russian/Jewish.

My ancestors were slaves for 400 years in Egypt, 70 years in Babylon.

Nobody is asking for reperations .
I appreciate a lot of what you said. But I think your remembered consciousness of slavery must be very different from a consciousness that relates to our own nation and that would have impacted your opportunities and actual memories. Your Russian/Jewish mother's side is not present here in America because of being stolen from their land/possessions and sold as property. Sold apart from each other, disallowed to keep their own children. Freed after several generations of owning nothing, of not being allowed to form stable families. Into a culture that still segregated them, denied them equal opportunities with other immigrants, and maintained for awhile many forms of contempt.
Your ancestors were able to flee that for a better place, and that is part of your consciousness of being an American citizen.
It would be far different if America were the place of your persecution and if in your lifetime you had experienced the segregation and contempt.

Whatever we want to say about 'reparations', all of this was a great evil that leaves a deep wound on a culture, and problems that persist. That don't go away because we wave a magic equality wand.

My own consciousness of being an American involves many encounters with what was a very clear racially motivated hatred (the belief that some people groups are cursed and ought to be enslaved, a dragging death, etc.) I don't know what it's like to be on the other side of those encounters, to have that consciousness embedded in my national heritage -- citing the hardly remembered slavery of people in another nation is not the same as having dealt with it and its ramifications here.

I like to hear Candace Owens speak too. She says a lot of good things.
 
Last edited:

py3ak

They're stalling and plotting against me
Staff member
Can I answer a question with some questions?
I would rather you answered the question -- that was why I asked it.

Are you saying that all cultures are treated equally by God? Was the Judgment of God on Israel the same as his judgment on Judah? Nations are simply moral persons, so I guess I could ask about individuals too. We're Jacob, and Esau treated equally? As far as that goes, are any two people treated identically by God?
I didn't assert anything, you might remember, since I asked a question.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the once more Christian America is under greater condemnation for the sin of abortion then China.
To whom much is given much will be required?
To whom much is given, much will be required.

I've already mentioned that the absolute predestination of God includes secondary cause. If not the judgment of God on the Black culture, then what? Are they an inferior race?
That escalated quickly. I'm not sure why you're asking me if anyone is an inferior race, but no. The image of God, and the damage done to it by Adam's fall, is not affected by the variations among groups of humans.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
True. Yet laws and their applications should make no such distinctions.
I am not even sure that is true. Some laws make sense for specific demographics and peoples. For instance, in some regions, the sale of alcohol was forbidden to aboriginal peoples/natives due to their propensity for drunken violence and lack of self-control. These laws make sense even if they are not universal to the entire population.
 

JimmyH

Puritan Board Senior
I appreciate a lot of what you said. But I think your remembered consciousness of slavery must be very different from a consciousness that relates to our own nation and that would have impacted your opportunities and actual memories. Your Russian/Jewish mother's side is not present here in America because of being stolen from their land/possessions and sold as property. Sold apart from each other, disallowed to keep their own children. Freed after several generations of owning nothing, of not being allowed to form stable families. Into a culture that still segregated them, denied them equal opportunities with other immigrants, and maintained for awhile many forms of contempt.
Your ancestors were able to flee that for a better place, and that is part of your consciousness of being an American citizen.
It would be far different if America were the place of your persecution and if in your lifetime you had experienced the segregation and contempt.

Whatever we want to say about 'reparations', all of this was a great evil that leaves a deep wound on a culture, and problems that persist. That don't go away because we wave a magic equality wand.

My own consciousness of being an American involves many encounters with what was a very clear racially motivated hatred (the belief that some people groups are cursed and ought to be enslaved, a dragging death, etc.) I don't know what it's like to be on the other side of those encounters, to have that consciousness embedded in my national heritage -- citing the hardly remembered slavery of people in another nation is not the same as having dealt with it and its ramifications here.

I like to hear Candace Owens speak too. She says a lot of good things.
While everything you say is true from my own personal perspective there is more to it. My father was a non observant Baptist from Mississippi, my mother a non observant Jew from NY ... I was confused.

I don't look Jewish, nor do I have a Jewish surname. I was in a position to interact with Gentiles who felt no reluctance to denigrate Jews. My mother was very sympathetic to the civil rights movement, and I was as well. I had great admiration for the Reverend Dr King.

I was about 12, on a city bus in Miami Beach. As we were going down Washington Ave two teenage black girls sitting in the seat in front of mine began talking about the Jews. At that time Miami Beach was largely a Jewish community and the area had a large population of elderly Jews walking along which is probably what stimulated the girls.

So it was 'the Jews this, and the Jews that,' coming out of the mouth of one of the girls. I was quite taken aback. Any Jewish people I knew were unquestionably civil rights advocates. In the ensuing years I can't count the times I've been in the presence of white, and black people, referring to Jews in a negative way, that they probably wouldn't have if they had known of my ancestry. At least not in my presence.

What does this have to do with your post ? Well ... I know racism up close and personal. Not as an abstract concept, or something I've seen on the evening news or in a documentary.

My ancestors slavery was not in this country, or in recent history, but 6 million Jews gassed in Germany happened just a few years before I was born, and I do know something about feelings of being among a group singled out because of their ethnicity.

At 13 years old, in a car driving from Florida to NY I saw a billboard in front of a roadside Inn that read, "NO (N-word), Dogs, of Jews Allowed." I know what it is to burn inside due to bigotry and racism. I get it.

They still spray paint swastikas on Synagogues, and murder people because they are Jewish. Not only in the Middle East, but around the world.

I abhor racism, and I have no personal guilt on that score. Nor will I allow any to be forced upon me because of the sins of our fathers.

Revelation 7:9

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

On 'that day' the issue of racism will be solved.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top