Bachelor's Degree Required for Seminary?

[teddyrux]

Anyone know why all seminaries require a Bachelor's degree for admission? How is an ordinary Joe to get an in-depth training and knowledge of scripture, church history, theology, apologetics, etc without shelling out $ for a Masters level diploma?

 

[Bookmeister]

RTS Does not require a BA, you will still have to apply and be accepted but I made the cut.

 

[Covenant Joel]

It is likely because most Reformed seminaries draw from Presbyterian denominations which have as a requirement that that candidates for ordination ordinarily have a Bachelor's and then a degree from seminary. However, a number of seminaries will allow one to enter without a Bachelor's and then graduate with a Bachelor of Divinity rather than a Master of Divinity degree.

 

[Andres]

Anyone know why all seminaries require a Bachelor's degree for admission? How is an ordinary Joe to get an in-depth training and knowledge of scripture, church history, theology, apologetics, etc without shelling out $ for a Masters level diploma?

Why are you opposed to earning a Bachelor's degree?

 

[teddyrux]

All I've been able to find are 1 year Certificate programs which is great for a lay person seeking to expand his knowledge not for someone who is called to full time ministry.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

Why are you opposed to earning a Bachelor's degree?

I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.

 

[Andres]

All I've been able to find are 1 year Certificate programs which is great for a lay person seeking to expand his knowledge not for someone who is called to full time ministry.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

Why are you opposed to earning a Bachelor's degree?

I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.

What denomination are you looking to eventually seek ordination with? You should seek out their requirements for ordination. Not all require an MDiv. Then you can taylor your studies to meet their requirements.

 

[jawyman]

Here is direct from the OPC BCO:

Chapter 21.3:

It is highly reproachful to religion and dangerous to the church to entrust the preaching of the gospel to weak and ignorant men. The presbytery shall therefore license a candidate only if he has received a bachelor of arts degree, or its academic equivalent, from a college or university of reputable academic standing, and has completed an adequate course of study lasting at least one year and a half in a theological seminary.

This is why a man needs a BA/BS in the OPC, but there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[mjmacvey]

This issue was discussed not too long ago in this thread http://www.puritanboard.com/f55/seminary-without-bachelors-before-hand-56094/

As was mentioned above and in that thread there are options for attending seminary (even accredited schools) without holding a bachelor's degree, however, in most cases it is better to get the BA or BS first.

 

[Marrow Man]

There are some seminaries that will admit students without a Bachelor degree on a trial basis. RTS is one such school (mentioned above), and Erskine does this as well (I knew someone who was doing this while I was a student there).

 

[larryjf]

I would speak to those responsible for your spiritual oversight and ask them for advice on the way in which you should go for your education. For instance, in presbyterian circles you could ask your Session, and then depending on if you are planning to go into ministry talk to the presbytery as well.

 

[puritanpilgrim]

I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.

I think it would be easier to answer your question if we knew, what denomination you were in and where you live. There are many programs designed for men just like you. And when you were finished you not be ignorant.

 

[Steve Curtis]

you not be ignorant.

I know it's just a typo - but in context, that's pretty funny (as typos often can be!)

 

[teddyrux]

I think it would be easier to answer your question if we knew, what denomination you were in and where you live. There are many programs designed for men just like you. And when you were finished you not be ignorant.

I attend a non-denominational, reformed church. Location isn't important as many seminaries and colleges offer distance classes, although I live in Michigan.

 

[Guido's Brother]

Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Not all seminaries require the undergrad. It is difficult to answer your question as your sig is not present to give us a wee bit more details.

AMR

 

[Tim]

Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.

That is what I was thinking. I have no formal theological training, but I am an academic. I was wondering if entering seminary having not had the academic experience of undergraduate work would make it all the more difficult to deal with the rigors of reading and writing in seminary. Obviously, we are talking about the "non-spiritual" aspects of ministerial training.

 

[Grimmson]

Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.

That is what I was thinking. I have no formal theological training, but I am an academic. I was wondering if entering seminary having not had the academic experience of undergraduate work would make it all the more difficult to deal with the rigors of reading and writing in seminary. Obviously, we are talking about the "non-spiritual" aspects of ministerial training.

Depending on your academic experience, a bachelor’s degree may not necessarily prepare you the rigors of seminary. It really does depend on what your degree was and the types of liberal arts classes that you took in college. I know I did not write many papers in college. Another factor of consideration is the time gap from the college experience to the seminary, which could result in the lost of skills and knowledge gained on the undergraduate level. Examples of skills lost that may be difficult to move back into the academic life includes study habits and paper writing. And if you didn’t write many research papers to begin with then the integrating into seminary can be that much more difficult in relation to what is being required. I can say that my undergraduate experience didn’t prepare me for Greek and Hebrew, which I would recommend taking prior to even entering seminary because of the higher paced requirement in relation to one’s ability to retain a foreign language. You do not need to get the degree to gain the language experience. As you get older it then becomes harder to retain information and as a result may need more time and other different study techniques then you may have used in your undergrad. The best prep I think for a seminary education is reading a variety of material that will be required reading prior to going to seminary. If certain historical/theological issues are developed early then that makes the seminary experience that much more profitable. You will also find that whatever you read will then start to be reflected in your own writing. There also needs to be consideration between the differences between the rigors of writing a paper and crafting a sermon for public speaking. You’re not going to be reading a paper to the congregation nor are you going to be spending 40 or so hours working on a sermon compared to a paper; this includes all the required research

Another consideration is to reflect on the purpose of the education to begin with. It is for the leaders of the church to gain the required skills of the trade. It should not necessarily be used to climb the pillars of academia and a stepping stone for a PhD, which can in turn take time away from serving the people of God. The point is not to reach the national governmental standards of academics, but instead Christian service standards. There are many kinds of knowledge and experience that does not necessarily go hand in hand with the book knowledge experience of an undergraduate degree. The church needs to train all their leaders and I think we need to be careful what standard requirements we bind on their conscience in our denominations and Christian intuitions, like seminaries.

Personally Robert, I think much of what are seminaries are doing we could do on the local church level for a cheaper and more productive rate, educationally speaking. The problem is that many of our pastors are not up to the task, which in turn could place into question their education to begin with. If you have a team of pastors working together towards instruction in church history and systematics then you should be able to get the same level of education, minus the student loans. And if you want a certificate of completion, I know of a great teaching store that sells certificates. Even in the process that I recommend, standard objectives would need to be present for the student and the teacher teaching the course.

 

[Tim]

Good comments, David. You are right that some bachelor's degrees may not prepare one that well for seminary.

 

[Guido's Brother]

Depending on your academic experience, a bachelor’s degree may not necessarily prepare you the rigors of seminary. It really does depend on what your degree was and the types of liberal arts classes that you took in college. I know I did not write many papers in college.

I can agree with that. In my case, our federational seminary had certain requirements that I needed to meet to be admitted:

A Bachelor of Arts degree (or equivalent) that included courses in:

Hebrew (2 years if available -- I took 1.5)
Greek (2 years)
Latin (1 year)
English
History
Philosophy

As it turned out, the University of Alberta BA program was quite accommodating to these requirements and even went beyond them in making certain requirements for graduation. Even though it's a secular institution, I was very pleased with the undergrad education that I received at the U of A; it was very well-rounded. I realize that not all universities/colleges will be like that. For instance, a fellow seminary student had a BA from Australia and he had never studied Shakespeare -- not even in high school. I found that remarkable. How can you get a liberal arts degree and never study Shakespeare?

 

[SemperEruditio]

Heck Whitefield Theological Seminary ain't free but you will definitely get an education at a fraction of the cost. You posted that you don't want the degree so I would assume that accreditation isn't a problem so Whitefield would be a perfect fit for you.

 

[teddyrux]

Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.

DISCLAIMER:
I am not comparing myself to Spurgeon.
END DISCLAIMER

I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------

David,

Thanks for you advice. I did get the answer to my question in the responses.

 

[larryjf]

I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.

There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:

Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney

But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.

I'm 42 with 4 kids and am an Active Duty Marine with significant responsibilities. You have less time than I?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.

There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:

Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney

But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.

If you become as well read as these men then I'd be willing to give a man a pass but not simply on the basis of some excuse that academic preparation is incidental to ministry.

 

[Grimmson]

I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.

I'm 42 with 4 kids and am an Active Duty Marine with significant responsibilities. You have less time than I?

I am not trying to defend Robert’s statement, but let us consider the issue of time and his age Rich. He is currently 41, if he gets a B.S. or B.A. in four years that would imply it would be 45 by the time he be ready to meet Bachelor requirement for seminary. Now add on top of that the reality that it is taking longer even for single seminary students compared to the standard two year expectation for earning a Masters. In many cases being four years before the M.Div is actually earned. If such is a case for Robert, then that will place him at about 49 before he could receive a calling or any other high application to his education. And it seems to me unless you’re already planted in a church and doing ministry within that church, it is much more difficult for a non-experienced older person to enter into say the pastoral ministry compared to a younger man in his 30s. That is at least the trend or rule that I see.

According to your signature list Rich, you are currently a seminary student, he is not yet one. You are already ahead of him in pursuing his education. I do not think he was referring to time in relation to responsibilities, but in regards to his age and the reality of the church using him in relation to that education. He can correct me if am wrong.

So why even try to get the education? Because I think it is a requirement for the church to teach these things anyway as being disciples of Christ in fulfilling the Great Commission and for those within the church to learn these things regardless of the level of Christian service one is providing. Now I am going to restrain a rant because it leading off topic of this thread.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

Anyone know why all seminaries require a Bachelor's degree for admission? How is an ordinary Joe to get an in-depth training and knowledge of scripture, church history, theology, apologetics, etc without shelling out $ for a Masters level diploma?

Lots of seminaries offer certificate programs, or you can go to a Bible or Christian college. Some seminaries even offer a Bachelor of Divinity for otherwise well-qualified ministry candidates who are too "well stricken" in age to get a Bachelor's first.

 

[Guido's Brother]

DISCLAIMER:
I am not comparing myself to Spurgeon.
END DISCLAIMER

I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.

It is true that Reformed churches (of Dutch background) have a provision for men with exceptional gifts to enter the ministry without a seminary education, and likely without any post-secondary education at all. It's happened a few times. But it's rare. The norm is for what used to be called "an educated ministry." That includes not only a seminary education, but also the preparations for it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.

I'm 42 with 4 kids and am an Active Duty Marine with significant responsibilities. You have less time than I?

I am not trying to defend Robert’s statement, but let us consider the issue of time and his age Rich. He is currently 41, if he gets a B.S. or B.A. in four years that would imply it would be 45 by the time he be ready to meet Bachelor requirement for seminary. Now add on top of that the reality that it is taking longer even for single seminary students compared to the standard two year expectation for earning a Masters. In many cases being four years before the M.Div is actually earned. If such is a case for Robert, then that will place him at about 49 before he could receive a calling or any other high application to his education. And it seems to me unless you’re already planted in a church and doing ministry within that church, it is much more difficult for a non-experienced older person to enter into say the pastoral ministry compared to a younger man in his 30s. That is at least the trend or rule that I see.

According to your signature list Rich, you are currently a seminary student, he is not yet one. You are already ahead of him in pursuing his education. I do not think he was referring to time in relation to responsibilities, but in regards to his age and the reality of the church using him in relation to that education. He can correct me if am wrong.

So why even try to get the education? Because I think it is a requirement for the church to teach these things anyway as being disciples of Christ in fulfilling the Great Commission and for those within the church to learn these things regardless of the level of Christian service one is providing. Now I am going to restrain a rant because it leading off topic of this thread.

The more ministry I have performed in the service of the Church, the more I'm convinced of the need that men be prepared for the same. I realize he has not even achieved a Bachelors Degree yet but age 49 is not too old if he really desires to be fully equipped. Given other responsibilities and my conviction that education ought to be continuous, I don't expect my own education will be completed by the time I'm 49 but will still be able to serve in some form of ministry during that time.

The pitfalls and the challenges to ministry are many. Being equipped to deal with the variety of Pastoral questions and challenges to the Christian faith does not come by easily. I've been in intense personal study for over 15 years and leadership for over 20. Every day I learn new things and I would never encourage a person's impatience to short circuit many things that ought to be in one's "toolkit" before they take on the ministry. I don't consider "degrees" to be the end all and believe pastoral learning is done much more on the ground of personal piety, study, and service to others but the academic preparation cannot be sacrificed in the least. If a Church is able to teach all the above, and thoroughly, then so be it but the implication in "I don't have the time..." also implies that one doesn't have the time for the Church to invest the same time that it would take.

As an example, we don't allow leaders to take significant responsibility in the military until they have many years of academic preparation, leadership, and observation of the same. There are simply no shortcuts to being a leader/teacher and the Scriptures are replete with warnings to avoid assuming these offices hastily.

 

[he beholds]

I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.

There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:

Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney

But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.

I think this is the exception mainly because we are so Western. Some think college is the stepping stone to everything. I think college is overrated.

 

[Andres]

I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.

There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:

Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney

But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.

I think this is the exception mainly because we are so Western. Some think college is the stepping stone to everything. I think college is overrated.

yeah but until all our employers think it's overrated too, most of us are best-off to go to school if it's required for our vocations.