Polanus1561
Puritan Board Junior
I am talking about adults.. do you notice this in your own and other churches? Why is this so?
Are there really lesser men than women in local churches?
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earl40
Puritan Board Professor
The thought that the men have less character than ladies in many churches may be true. LOL
My personal experience in this area is that the women are much more commited on the whole, active in various ministries and activities within the church, and think that is due to many men not really having the Lord as a top priority.
Jack K
Puritan Board Doctor
In the churches I've been part of, there have probably been a few more women than men. Not many more, but a few more.
Faith and repentance require humility and giving up self-trust. This is hard for anyone, but I think men are especially prone to self-trust, at least in America. We men like to see ourselves as strong, but Jesus is for those who know they are weak. Maybe this explains why fewer men are in church.
Faith and repentance require humility and giving up self-trust. This is hard for anyone, but I think men are especially prone to self-trust, at least in America. We men like to see ourselves as strong, but Jesus is for those who know they are weak. Maybe this explains why fewer men are in church.
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SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
I’ve read the statistics about how in African-American church circles women far far outnumber the men. I thought there was a gross exaggeration until I had the opportunity to preach at a few different gospel services at various locations while in the military. In each case the women grossly out numbered the men, in one case I’d wager it was an 80/20 split.
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Jo_Was
Puritan Board Freshman
This is coming from another perspective, but my husband and I recently finished the book Jesus in Beijing: How Christianity is transforming China and Changing the Global Balance of Power by by David Aikmen. It was written in the early 2000s, but one thing that really struck us was how even in a climate like post-cultural revolution China, you saw a dramatic difference between men and women in the growing church. I think it was something like 80% or more of the churches are women! A lot of that was chalked up to men being more concerned with military, politics, and social pressure to prioritize monetary/societal achievement. I think you can also see that in missionary efforts in other areas where social prosperity as a goal is largely impressed on the male population (areas like Japan, for instance, which I think, though extreme in some cases, mirrors the 'drive' of Western European and American societies)...but, while I don't have studies to back me up, I bet you'd find similarly that women are more likely to be open to missionary efforts in most societies (even second and third world) than their male counterparts.
All in all, I don't want to say it's a 'gender expectation/stereotype' issue lest someone spin me out of context...but in some senses, it might be an expectation for men to be more focused 'on the world (job, provision, social status)', and women on the softer, spiritual matters. I'm not saying that's always/only the case (Please don't come at me fundamentalists or feminists), but it is largely a trend in societies (perhaps with more discrepancy being represented in those with more 'traditional' gender roles which would support Ben's observation about the African-American community).
I think this trend of expectation just gets exacerbated in certain subcultures or broader societies when mixed with other factors.
All in all, I don't want to say it's a 'gender expectation/stereotype' issue lest someone spin me out of context...but in some senses, it might be an expectation for men to be more focused 'on the world (job, provision, social status)', and women on the softer, spiritual matters. I'm not saying that's always/only the case (Please don't come at me fundamentalists or feminists), but it is largely a trend in societies (perhaps with more discrepancy being represented in those with more 'traditional' gender roles which would support Ben's observation about the African-American community).
I think this trend of expectation just gets exacerbated in certain subcultures or broader societies when mixed with other factors.
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
If the number of men is at issue, it might be wise to change the title to "fewer," as "fewer" has to do with countable items and "lesser" has to do with non-countable items.
I think in most churches there are more women than men because men have abdicated spiritual responsibility for leading, and also because (under the influence of feminism), the women often don't let the men lead. So why would a man want to go to a place where he will feel enormous pressure of various kinds?
I think in most churches there are more women than men because men have abdicated spiritual responsibility for leading, and also because (under the influence of feminism), the women often don't let the men lead. So why would a man want to go to a place where he will feel enormous pressure of various kinds?
TheOldCourse
Puritan Board Sophomore
My experience has been that the attendance gap is far less stark in Reformed churches than in evangelical ones. Evangelical churches tend to emphasize emotionalism and sentiment while minimizing intellectual engagement in a way that tends to alienate many men. Not that this excuses men for absenting themselves from public worship or that we should over-emphasize these kind of gender differences (contra Doug Wilson and company), but I think that it's a factor.
Most evangelical churches preach a wimpy theology of an impotent God...no wonder men stay away.
To tame an animal is to make it weak, after all. When I was a teenager I saw many churches that seemed merely a haven for old women and effeminate boys in bow ties.
I recommend the book: The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity (Spence Publishing Company), by Leon J. Podles,
https://www.amazon.com/Church-Impot...pence+Publishing+Company),+by+Leon+J.+Podles,
And don't even get me started on the new worship songs which are feminine love songs ("Jesus is my boyfriend" sort of thing)....
To tame an animal is to make it weak, after all. When I was a teenager I saw many churches that seemed merely a haven for old women and effeminate boys in bow ties.
I recommend the book: The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity (Spence Publishing Company), by Leon J. Podles,
https://www.amazon.com/Church-Impot...pence+Publishing+Company),+by+Leon+J.+Podles,
And don't even get me started on the new worship songs which are feminine love songs ("Jesus is my boyfriend" sort of thing)....
bookslover
Puritan Board Doctor
Yes: "fewer," not "lesser."
bookslover
Puritan Board Doctor
Joseph Stalin (that ol' dead Communist) is quoted as saying: "Religion is for children and old women."
Lane and Pergy are spot on. Men don’t want to come to church for the same reasons I struggle with going, we have feminized Christ, and worship, with sorry singing and milk toast sermons. We also have very low expectations of the men in the congregation, just show up, shut up, leave your money, rinse and repeat. The Gospel should challenge us to change, cut us to the quick. Some of you might want to cover your ears for this I’m going to say the P word (i know we are not supposed to because of the two dumb Dougs) Patriarchy there I said I’m not taking it back. The Bible is Rabidly Patriarchal we need to stop down playing this truth just because others have abused it. If you are offended by Biblical Patriarchy then you have a problem with God.
Side note
Does any one remember the Good old days when men acted and dressed like men and women acted and dressed like women, crime was low, you slept with your windows and doors open, your kids played outside until dark, you did not worry that your wife or kids would be molested, you did not hear the f-bomb coming out of the mouth of an 8 yr old at walmart (like i did the other day), you did not worry that your kids third grade teacher would give your kid a condom or encourage them to experiment with Homosexuality, Transgenderism, or beastiality.
You know when men ruled the world.
Side note
Does any one remember the Good old days when men acted and dressed like men and women acted and dressed like women, crime was low, you slept with your windows and doors open, your kids played outside until dark, you did not worry that your wife or kids would be molested, you did not hear the f-bomb coming out of the mouth of an 8 yr old at walmart (like i did the other day), you did not worry that your kids third grade teacher would give your kid a condom or encourage them to experiment with Homosexuality, Transgenderism, or beastiality.
You know when men ruled the world.
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Jo_Was
Puritan Board Freshman
Minimizing intellectual engagement is less of a male factor, and I think more of a generational divide between younger generations and their parents (of the good ol' Mega-church, Crusade era, WWJD bracelet days...) to state it in a somewhat silly way. And I agree with Chris that there is a greater balance in Reformed circles. Yes, women connect more with emotionalism in general, and more broadly evangelical, and particularly charismatic circles, will reflect this.
I also think happy-go-lucky motivational speeches swapped out for true Biblical theology and practice is not just a deterrent to men, but many people who are genuinely thoughtful about what and why they believe what they do (it's why I left the emotionalist, watered-down, charistmatic circles I did). Again, I think this doesn't just affect men. I believe this can also be viewed as a generational picture as well. I think this is a large part in why there's a poor retention rate for "youth" in these seeker-sensitive circles, or environments where church is all about fun, friends, and concerts. Young people just realize one day that they could go to a real concert and get exactly the same emotional rush--and never have really experienced true church life.
However, though it's not as strong an emphasis in Reformed circles, I think the natural meekness and emotionalism that the Gospel does offer is what can turn men away. I don't think it's the effemination/weakening of God, Christ, or the Gospel as suggested, but the opposite.
As I alluded to in my first post, the divide becomes very apparent in more traditional societies which I believe is a factor of expectation. While obviously our society has experienced some shift, we largely still default to the expectation that men involve themselves with work, provision, social status, and women tend to 'softer' things, and thus 'spirituality' is often caked into that.
The Gospel does challenge us all in different ways. For women in our society, learning in any way to be submissive in the Biblical sense can be difficult. But equally so is a man learning to be meek, a servant, a bride to his Christ. Those are the 'emotional' or 'soft' parts of the Christian walk and Gospel that I think are opposed to tradition which presses men to be focused on success and work and intellectual or economical pursuits (even if the aim is 'good' which is to provide for a family). The Gospel, especially from a Reformed perspective, is not about 'manning up' which often ends up with the connotations (or perhaps unintended consequence) of having to 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps'--which is certainly not the aim of the Gospel. It is all about submitting to Christ as your head, servitude, humbling, loving, caring, meek obedience, patience, compassion....and that's some pretty 'soft' language that I think women relate to more, and men have more difficulty relating to in our culture because of how we expect a 'man' to be a certain way, which is not necessarily the type of 'man' laid out in the Bible.
I also think happy-go-lucky motivational speeches swapped out for true Biblical theology and practice is not just a deterrent to men, but many people who are genuinely thoughtful about what and why they believe what they do (it's why I left the emotionalist, watered-down, charistmatic circles I did). Again, I think this doesn't just affect men. I believe this can also be viewed as a generational picture as well. I think this is a large part in why there's a poor retention rate for "youth" in these seeker-sensitive circles, or environments where church is all about fun, friends, and concerts. Young people just realize one day that they could go to a real concert and get exactly the same emotional rush--and never have really experienced true church life.
However, though it's not as strong an emphasis in Reformed circles, I think the natural meekness and emotionalism that the Gospel does offer is what can turn men away. I don't think it's the effemination/weakening of God, Christ, or the Gospel as suggested, but the opposite.
As I alluded to in my first post, the divide becomes very apparent in more traditional societies which I believe is a factor of expectation. While obviously our society has experienced some shift, we largely still default to the expectation that men involve themselves with work, provision, social status, and women tend to 'softer' things, and thus 'spirituality' is often caked into that.
The Gospel does challenge us all in different ways. For women in our society, learning in any way to be submissive in the Biblical sense can be difficult. But equally so is a man learning to be meek, a servant, a bride to his Christ. Those are the 'emotional' or 'soft' parts of the Christian walk and Gospel that I think are opposed to tradition which presses men to be focused on success and work and intellectual or economical pursuits (even if the aim is 'good' which is to provide for a family). The Gospel, especially from a Reformed perspective, is not about 'manning up' which often ends up with the connotations (or perhaps unintended consequence) of having to 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps'--which is certainly not the aim of the Gospel. It is all about submitting to Christ as your head, servitude, humbling, loving, caring, meek obedience, patience, compassion....and that's some pretty 'soft' language that I think women relate to more, and men have more difficulty relating to in our culture because of how we expect a 'man' to be a certain way, which is not necessarily the type of 'man' laid out in the Bible.
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