Are Reformed Baptist Charismatic Churches Legitimate?

Discussion in 'Pneumatology' started by Dachaser, Aug 25, 2017.

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  1. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Would they be seen as being a legitimate church?
    I thought that neither Confession, the 1647/1689, would support that as being allowed?
  2. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Puritan Board Doctor

    Yes. No. Maybe. It depends..........

    I wouldn't restrict "legitimate church" to one that can affirm a Reformed Confession. For example, are we going to say that Grace Community Church (MacArthur) or Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis (Piper's former church, which is at least open but cautious on the gifts) are not legitimate churches? Are we going to say that a congregation of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church that is mildly charismatic is "not a legitimate church" if we believe they get WCF Chapter 1 wrong?

    When you start talking about "legitimate church" I start thinking about Landmarkism, although other people may see it different ways. But as the WCF says, some churches have indeed degenerated so much that they are synagogues of Satan.

    The Dutch Reformed, or at least conservative ones, don't see any Baptist church (including 1689 ones) as being a true (or "legitimate") church and Baptists are not allowed to partake of the Lord's Supper in those churches. (I'm thinking of some URCNA churches and leaders who have written about this.) This is one difference between them and most Presbyterians today.
  3. Reformed Roman

    Reformed Roman Puritan Board Freshman

    Not all Baptist churches are cessationist. But, from my experience, most baptist churches that aren't cessationist also don't have most of the "charismatic activiies" going on.
  4. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    I was thinking along the lines of not really them being legitimate as a real church, but more are any of those charismatic beliefs and practices allowable if a church holds to either Confession?
  5. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    I also think that it depends on how we understand what cessationist means to us,as some see it meaning that God no longer does anything apart/outside of the scriptures/ordinances, while others see it as being that while the Sign Gifts are not in use now, the Lord still can and does heal and do other things such as miracles as He wills them to happen.
  6. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    I very much appreciate Chris's answer, above, but I understood, David, your question to be "is non-cessationist (charismatic) belief consonant with the system of doctrine as set forth in the historic Reformed Baptist Confessions?" And the answer is "no."

    All of the 16th and 17th c. Protestant Confessions and Catechisms assume a cessationist hermeneutic: the canon is closed and its concomitants (the charismatic gifts) have thus ceased. The focus is on Word (especially its preaching) and sacraments.

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  7. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Thank you, Alan. That would have been my response too.
  8. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    In order for a Confessing church then to be in agreement, there should not be any Charismatic activity within the assembly allowed by leadership.
  9. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Would healing and anointing with oil contradict the claim that the canon/special revelation has ceased? The former are "charismatic" activity but don't have anything to do with ongoing revelation.
  10. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    No, as that would be keeping in the scriptures, as while we still hold with God healing us through various means, at times even directly, we would not hold to faith healers.
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