Are Reformed Baptist Charismatic Churches Legitimate?

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Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Would they be seen as being a legitimate church?
I thought that neither Confession, the 1647/1689, would support that as being allowed?
 

Pilgrim

Puritan Board Doctor
Yes. No. Maybe. It depends..........

I wouldn't restrict "legitimate church" to one that can affirm a Reformed Confession. For example, are we going to say that Grace Community Church (MacArthur) or Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis (Piper's former church, which is at least open but cautious on the gifts) are not legitimate churches? Are we going to say that a congregation of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church that is mildly charismatic is "not a legitimate church" if we believe they get WCF Chapter 1 wrong?

When you start talking about "legitimate church" I start thinking about Landmarkism, although other people may see it different ways. But as the WCF says, some churches have indeed degenerated so much that they are synagogues of Satan.

The Dutch Reformed, or at least conservative ones, don't see any Baptist church (including 1689 ones) as being a true (or "legitimate") church and Baptists are not allowed to partake of the Lord's Supper in those churches. (I'm thinking of some URCNA churches and leaders who have written about this.) This is one difference between them and most Presbyterians today.
 

Reformed Roman

Puritan Board Freshman
Not all Baptist churches are cessationist. But, from my experience, most baptist churches that aren't cessationist also don't have most of the "charismatic activiies" going on.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Yes. No. Maybe. It depends..........

I wouldn't restrict "legitimate church" to one that can affirm a Reformed Confession. For example, are we going to say that Grace Community Church (MacArthur) or Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis (Piper's former church, which is at least open but cautious on the gifts) are not legitimate churches? Are we going to say that a congregation of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church that is mildly charismatic is "not a legitimate church" if we believe they get WCF Chapter 1 wrong?

When you start talking about "legitimate church" I start thinking about Landmarkism, although other people may see it different ways. But as the WCF says, some churches have indeed degenerated so much that they are synagogues of Satan.

The Dutch Reformed, or at least conservative ones, don't see any Baptist church (including 1689 ones) as being a true (or "legitimate") church and Baptists are not allowed to partake of the Lord's Supper in those churches. (I'm thinking of some URCNA churches and leaders who have written about this.) This is one difference between them and most Presbyterians today.
I was thinking along the lines of not really them being legitimate as a real church, but more are any of those charismatic beliefs and practices allowable if a church holds to either Confession?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Not all Baptist churches are cessationist. But, from my experience, most baptist churches that aren't cessationist also don't have most of the "charismatic activiies" going on.
I also think that it depends on how we understand what cessationist means to us,as some see it meaning that God no longer does anything apart/outside of the scriptures/ordinances, while others see it as being that while the Sign Gifts are not in use now, the Lord still can and does heal and do other things such as miracles as He wills them to happen.
 

Alan D. Strange

Puritan Board Senior
I very much appreciate Chris's answer, above, but I understood, David, your question to be "is non-cessationist (charismatic) belief consonant with the system of doctrine as set forth in the historic Reformed Baptist Confessions?" And the answer is "no."

All of the 16th and 17th c. Protestant Confessions and Catechisms assume a cessationist hermeneutic: the canon is closed and its concomitants (the charismatic gifts) have thus ceased. The focus is on Word (especially its preaching) and sacraments.

Peace,
Alan
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
All of the 16th and 17th c. Protestant Confessions and Catechisms assume a cessationist hermeneutic: the canon is closed and its concomitants (the charismatic gifts) have thus ceased. The focus is on Word (especially its preaching) and sacraments.
Thank you, Alan. That would have been my response too.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
I very much appreciate Chris's answer, above, but I understood, David, your question to be "is non-cessationist (charismatic) belief consonant with the system of doctrine as set forth in the historic Reformed Baptist Confessions?" And the answer is "no."

All of the 16th and 17th c. Protestant Confessions and Catechisms assume a cessationist hermeneutic: the canon is closed and its concomitants (the charismatic gifts) have thus ceased. The focus is on Word (especially its preaching) and sacraments.

Peace,
Alan
In order for a Confessing church then to be in agreement, there should not be any Charismatic activity within the assembly allowed by leadership.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
there should not be any Charismatic activity within the assembly allowed by leadership.
Would healing and anointing with oil contradict the claim that the canon/special revelation has ceased? The former are "charismatic" activity but don't have anything to do with ongoing revelation.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Would healing and anointing with oil contradict the claim that the canon/special revelation has ceased? The former are "charismatic" activity but don't have anything to do with ongoing revelation.
No, as that would be keeping in the scriptures, as while we still hold with God healing us through various means, at times even directly, we would not hold to faith healers.
 
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