Jenson, The bible is clear; we will know them by their fruits.........have you perused the site? Please look it over. The Christian community at large knows that 'Bain and Carpenter" are on the fringe. Ther hall of heteroorthodoxy is ridiculous: They consider these men anathema: Louis Berkhof Loraine Boettner Horatius Bonar Thomas Boston John Calvin Thomas Chalmers Gordon Clark David Gay A.A. Hodge Charles Hodge Richard Mouw John Murray & Ned Stonehouse J. I. Packer A.W. Pink John Reisinger Robert Schuller & Billy Graham Charles H. Spurgeon ~In fact, if you personally talk to any Arminians, you can add yourself to this list (as far as they are concerned). If they are bought w/ the blood of Christ, they will in turn repent and abandon their false belief sysytem.