Any vegans in here?

Discussion in 'The Iron Chef' started by josiahrussell, Aug 28, 2017.

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  1. josiahrussell

    josiahrussell Puritan Board Freshman

    I've seen a few old and 'locked' posts but I thought I would start a new one.
    I'm a vegan for both health and ethical reasons. Anyone else here ascribe to a plant based diet?


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  2. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Jesus ate fish and lamb. Are you more ethical than Him?

    My wife was vegan when younger to help with stomach issues for a time. But once we got on the mission field and protein was harder to find she reverted back to her carnivorous state.
     
  3. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    I am curious to know what your "ethical reasons" are for adopting veganism. Would you please elaborate?

    Peace,
    Alan
     
  4. josiahrussell

    josiahrussell Puritan Board Freshman

    Obviously not... although I don't believe that Jesus is happy with how the greed for money has created today's meat industry, the effects on the environment, and the abuse of his very own creation


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  5. josiahrussell

    josiahrussell Puritan Board Freshman

    I don't believe that the way we are abusing and taking advantage of animals is right. Just like with everything else the meat industry has turned into a money hungry business that will do anything it can to cut costs and boost profit even if it effects the lives of Gods creatures. By supporting these organisations we are also supporting the destruction of the planet, draining the seas, supporting health decline, creating diseases etc. If we were to keep the grain that is fed to livestock and used that to feed the world we could end world hunger! And lower animal product induced illnesses.
    I just can't imagine that if Jesus was to come back today that he would be happy with the abuse of what is ultimately his.


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  6. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    Thanks for the reply. May I follow up?

    So it's not the eating of meat, as such, that you object to, but rather the way that you see such commercially produced. Is that correct? For example, if I hunted my meat or ethically raised it, would you still object? Let me put it this way: is there any way that I could ethically eat meat?

    And, if profiteering is a concern, are you suggesting that such does not exist in the broader "health food" industry of which veganism is a part?

    Do you believe that the ingestion of meat ipso facto is wrong, or only the way that it is done now, and, if the later, how does a vegan diet escape all such commercial tincture?

    To put a fine point on it, if you believe that any use of meat in principle is wrong, how do you escape the condemnation of the Apostle in I Timothy 4:1-4, which appeared as a part of the Gnostic heresy that Tatian fell into (Encratites)?

    Peace,
    Alan
     
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  7. TylerRay

    TylerRay Puritan Board Senior

    I'm mostly vegan. I don't eat any animal products... most of the time. I eat about two or three meals each week that include some sort of meat or dairy.

    My reasons for eating this way are pretty much entirely health-related. When I eat dairy, I really pay for it through joint pain. Besides that, I'm convinced of a number of health benefits to a plant-based diet.

    I do think that industrial farming techniques are unethical because of the effects on animals and people, but that goes for fruit and vegetable farming as well as animal farming.
     
  8. josiahrussell

    josiahrussell Puritan Board Freshman

    If you or I hunted my own meat out of necessity then no I wouldn't object, but we don't do that now. For one it isn't necessary for our health or wellbeing to consume them, and two we breed animals into suffering rather than hunting what we need from the wild.

    I don't point at profiteering as the enemy rather the cause for the mistreatment. It is cheaper to force breed in confined spaces, feed crude food, pack as many as you can into sheds with no light, ventilation or clean areas to be killed cheaply for that profit, rather then spending the money providing the animals good nutrition, a healthy environment, enough space to act as they would in the wild etc. If we are take care of Gods creation with the dominion we have been given we can't act like that.

    The ingestion of meat isn't wrong, it isn't healthy but it isn't spiritually or scripterly wrong.

    A Vegan diet is a completely plant based diet. Easy and cheap to grow and cultivate, it takes far less water, land, and resources to make large amounts of it and it's completely sustainable and Has all the nutrition we need.




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  9. TylerRay

    TylerRay Puritan Board Senior

    Josiah, do you really believe that we can destroy God's creation? I'd suggest that you ask yourself that question against the background of Psalm 104.

    By the way, I know people who hunt for meat. It may not be necessary, per se, but it's not necessary for them to go to the grocery store for their food, either--they could always hunt for it.
     
  10. Joshua

    Joshua Administrator Staff Member

    I generally limit myself to wild game (hunted myself), beef, pork, poultry (an other fowls), and freshwater/seafood. Does that count?
     
  11. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    If it is not "healthy" it would be "spiritually" wrong each and every time one eats meat.
     
  12. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    Thanks, Josiah, for the clarifications. You have no objection then to anyone ingesting meat as such, if done in what you understand to be an ethical way (essentially you think that it is immoral to mass produce meat and make a profit; the undesirable conditions that you describe--I personally don't dispute that they are repugnant--is the way that those producing it make it as profitable as it is). Your remarks about hunting, however, seem gratuitous and ill-informed to me.

    You believe that a vegan diet is healthier for everyone. That, of course, is disputed among medical experts (one can marshal them on either side of this, as well as many other health arguments). You come across a little strong here, as if there is a "thus saith the Lord" when it comes to the health question. Again, I Tim. 4 (3-5) must come into view here. It can't be unhealthful to eat ethically raised meat on all occasions as the Apostle's admonition to receive all with thanks (including meat) would be unintelligible.

    Perhaps you think I'm being a bit exacting here and you just wanted to talk about vegan diets. However, it is you who have made ethical and health arguments so I thought it not only fair but wise to examine such. I'll bow out now as I do not follow a vegan diet and so have nothing to offer in that regard.

    Peace,
    Alan
     
  13. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    I was a vegan until I thought I would vomit. It was the longest three days of my life.
     
  14. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Just asking: but it seems to me that you're essentially trying to make a statement against abusing animals raised for meat. Which is great. But I wonder how big of a statement it is really making.

    Wouldn't it instead make a better statement if you purchased meat from say, local farmers, or my father who raises grass-fed cattle that never know a stressful day in their life right up until slaughtering?

    Wouldn't producing more demand for "ethical" meat be a better way of signalling to industry than not eating meat at all? Trying to understand here.
     
  15. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    What did you eat? Lol
     
  16. Stope

    Stope Puritan Board Sophomore

    Im mostly plant based (I dont say "vegan" because most vegans come off as a bit smug).

    I do it for health and self-control reasons (but I dont doubt that the Meat machine doesnt inflict serious pain on these helpless animals... "Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel." Proverbs 12:10)
     
  17. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    Well, I love meat and love love cheese (wi cheese is really good), so I bought the "good" imitation of those things. My sister went vegan cuz it makes her feel better, so she knew all the "good" brands of imitation meat to buy. I think she's gone nuts lol.
     
  18. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    BTW, I do think there are some industries that treat the animals cruelly so I try to buy from those that don't. I guess I could try harder.
     
  19. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    Some of those substitutes are no doubt toxic with the vegetable oils and so forth. Blech
     
  20. Claudiu

    Claudiu Puritan Board Junior

    :ditto:

    I tend towards a vegan, or mainly eat a whole food plant based diet. When I do eat meat it's not red meat, but chickens my family grows or fish (although I did have a lot of moose meat from a successful hunt this past year). This way of eating is mainly for health reasons.
     
  21. Bill The Baptist

    Bill The Baptist Puritan Board Graduate

    I'm curious as to why you think this would be the case. As someone who lives in a farming community, I have some idea of how much money it takes to run a commercial farm. Farmers simply can't afford to produce grain or anything else for people who can't afford to pay for it. The reason why people are starving has nothing to do with production capacity and everything to do with economics. Most people who are starving in the world are doing so because they live in countries with terrible leaders who are only seeking to enrich themselves. Eliminating the meat industry will not fix this.
     
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  22. Claudiu

    Claudiu Puritan Board Junior

    Buying good, organic fruits and veggies can get pretty expensive. While bad, cheap beef your average American buys is quite a bit cheaper. I would have to find this, but I remember it mentioned before (perhaps an official study) that it takes more land and resources to grow plants. Or maybe it was that if everyone were to go completely vegan we would have to use more land and resources, whereas meat has more calories packed in a field to feed more people,
     
  23. Claudiu

    Claudiu Puritan Board Junior

    Would you say this about smoking?
     
  24. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior

    Not vegan here, so nothing to offer in that regard.

    I do hunt and wanted to offer a perspective on this. Where I live in southern PA, the deer population is very large, compounded by the lack of any natural predators. If we didn't hunt, many of the deer would starve over winter, and many more would be hit by motor vehicles.

    I feel like with these considerations, hunting provides not only healthier meat, but is also caring for God's creation in managing it.

    I do agree with you that we should care for the creation. My family raises most of our own meat. I don't buy much fish, but I believe it's a good idea to be aware of what fish are caught in a sustainable way.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  25. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    No I would not. in my opinion having one or a couple of cigs a day is not necessarily unhealthy.
     
  26. Claudiu

    Claudiu Puritan Board Junior

    The science would show otherwise. But I appreciate you said your opinion.
     
  27. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    I know hormesis isn't completely understood but there is a frequency of smoking that is not harmful. We just know don't what it is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  28. LilyG

    LilyG Puritan Board Freshman

    I'm paleo(ish) for health reasons. :)
     
  29. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Junior

    Would you all agree that humans were created to be vegetarians and that animals were only given for food after the fall at the time the ark landed?
     
  30. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Earl does work in the medical field...
     
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