Animals

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Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
Animals in Heaven?

Isa 11:1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.
Isa 11:2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
Isa 11:3 And his delight shall be in the fear of the LORD. He shall not judge by what his eyes see, or decide disputes by what his ears hear,
Isa 11:4 but with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.
Isa 11:5 Righteousness shall be the belt of his waist, and faithfulness the belt of his loins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples--of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.


Ecc 3:19 For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.
Ecc 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Authorised
Dr. Morey had an answer for that...







"There's a stable up in glory...pass the shovel..."

Yeah, that will probably be my job. And I will love doing it. It beats the alternative.
 

Larry Hughes

Puritan Board Sophomore
Great scriptures! It is certainly not an unpleasant thought. And would align with God's goodness.

Not to get to speculative but: Also, if man had not fallen and had maintained his sub-sovereign rule on earth as God's appointed earthly ruler - would not the animals have never fallen as a part of nature with man? Thus, never would they die for death is from the fall? And thus, these same animals and all after them be in eternal glory had Adam (and mankind by Adam) gained the reward?

And does not Christ redeem that!

Animals were also a part of that which passed through the judgment waters of the flood.

And animals were symbolic transfers of substitionary atonement for fallen man, yet the animals did not redeem but Christ to whom they pointed.

Just some open/passing thoughts on the subject.

ldh
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
I would love to see my first dog in heaven. He was so cool. That dog new us all by name. He was the smartest dog I have ever seen.
 

Tirian

Puritan Board Sophomore
Scott,

Praise the Lord for your post! I was going to post the Ecc pasages last night for comment, but instead spent an hour searching the archived posts on this topic. (Needless to say I didnt find anything that directly tackled this question - I'm just staggered you posted exactly what I needed to read).

I hadn't thought about that Isa. passage, so many thanks indeed.

You see, someone had recently pointed out Isa 35 to me and tried to suggest this was proof there were no beasts in heaven -

"8 And a highway will be there;
it will be called the Way of Holiness.
The unclean will not journey on it;
it will be for those who walk in that Way;
wicked fools will not go about on it. [a]

9 No lion will be there,
nor will any ferocious beast get up on it;
they will not be found there.
But only the redeemed will walk there,

10 and the ransomed of the LORD will return.
They will enter Zion with singing;
everlasting joy will crown their heads.
Gladness and joy will overtake them,
and sorrow and sighing will flee away."

However, my take on this (verse 9) is that it's not referring to beasts in heaven but rather that the devil will not snatch those He has predistined from off the path to glory that He has appointed them to follow. (cf. Devil as a roaring lion).


Cheers,

Matt

[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Matthew Glover]
 

Bladestunner316

Puritan Board Doctor
Oh what a glory awaits us in the true promised land.



Isaiah 11
The Reign of Jesse´s Offspring
1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
3 His delight is in the fear of the LORD,
And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.
6 "œ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra´s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper´s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
 

andreas

Puritan Board Sophomore
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:13-14

Nothing here about beasts.Only men were raised up.

andreas.
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
My take on Isaiah 11 and 35 and similar passages is the they speak figuratively of the blessedness of the Messianic kingdom on earth.

Matthew Henry on Isa. 11.6:

V. That there should be great peace and tranquillity under his government; this is an explication of what was said in ch. ix. 6, that he should be the Prince of peace. Peace signifies two things:--
1. Unity or concord, which is intimated in these figurative promises, that even the wolf shall dwell peaceably with the lamb; men of the most fierce and furious dispositions, who used to bite and devour all about them, shall have their temper so strangely altered by the efficacy of the gospel and grace of Christ that they shall live in love even with the weakest and such as formerly they would have made an easy prey of. So far shall the sheep be from hurting one another, as sometimes they have done (Ezek. xxxiv. 20, 21), that even the wolves shall agree with them. Christ, who is our peace, came to slay all enmities and to settle lasting friendships among his followers, particularly between Jews and Gentiles: when multitudes of both, being converted to the faith of Christ, united in one sheep-fold, then the wolf and the lamb dwelt together; the wolf did not so much as threaten the lamb, nor was the lamb afraid of the wolf. The leopard shall not only not tear the kid, but shall lie down with her: even their young ones shall lie down together, and shall be trained up in a blessed amity, in order to the perpetuating of it. The lion shall cease to be ravenous and shall eat straw like the ox, as some think all the beasts of prey did before the fall. The asp and the cockatrice shall cease to be venomous, so that parents shall let their children play with them and put their hands among them. A generation of vipers shall become a seed of saints, and the old complaint of homo homini lupus--man is a wolf to man, shall be at an end. Those that inhabit the holy mountain shall live as amicably as the creatures did that were with Noah in the ark, and it shall be a means of their preservation, for they shall not hurt nor destroy one another as they have done. Now, (1.) This is fulfilled in the wonderful effect of the gospel upon the minds of those that sincerely embrace it; it changes the nature, and makes those that trampled on the meek of the earth, not only meek like them, but affectionate towards them. When Paul, who had persecuted the saints, joined himself to them, then the wolf dwelt with the lamb. (2.) Some are willing to hope it shall yet have a further accomplishment in the latter days, when swords shall be beaten into ploughshares.

As to Ecclesiastes 3, Walt Disney's exegesis notwithstanding, I think the implication is clear from the text that the being of a beast does NOT have an afterlife, whereas the soul of man continues on after death.

Matthew Henry:

It is certain that the spirit of the sons of men at death is ascending; it goes upwards to the Father of spirits, who made it, to the world of spirits to which it is allied; it dies not with the body, but is redeemed from the power of the grave, Ps. xlix. 15. It goes upwards to be judged and determined to an unchangeable state. It is certain that the spirit of the beast goes downwards to the earth; it dies with the body; it perishes and is gone at death. The soul of a beast is, at death, like a candle blown out--there is an end of it; whereas the soul of a man is then like a candle taken out of a dark lantern, which leaves the lantern useless indeed, but does itself shine brighter. This great difference there is between the spirits of men and beasts; and a good reason it is why men should set their affections on things above, and lift up their souls to those things, not suffering them, as if they were the souls of brutes, to cleave to this earth.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
As to Ecclesiastes 3, Walt Disney's exegesis notwithstanding, I think the implication is clear from the text that the being of a beast does NOT have an afterlife, whereas the soul of man continues on after death.

Party Pooper.:(
 

pastorway

Puritan Board Senior
whether my pets are in heaven or not, I do believe that upon teh New Earth there will be animals. It will be a recreation of creation, yet without sin. The New Earth will be better than the first, and so also every bit as good as the first, which was created as good with the animals, etc.

Phillip
 

Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
Jesus, in His glorified body was hungered; he asked for meat. The question is, will we as well be hungry? What will we eat in the afterlife? Does Jesus eat today? Why would he ask for meat?

Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Angels in Genesis eat:

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Gen 18:3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Gen 18:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
Gen 18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
Gen 18:6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
Gen 18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.


[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]
 

Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
Originally posted by just_grace
I don't think there will be any 'flesh and blood' in heaven.

David,
Are you saying that Jesus is not flesh and blood?

Luk 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Act 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Act 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes,
Act 1:11 and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

Joh 21:5 Then Jesus said to them, Children, do you not have anything to eat? They answered Him, No.
Joh 21:6 And He said to them, Cast the net into the right side of the boat and you will find.
Joh 21:7 Then they cast, and they no longer had the strength to draw, from the multitude of the fish. Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, It is the Lord. Then hearing that it is the Lord, Simon Peter girded on his coat (for he was naked) and threw himself into the sea.
Joh 21:8 And the other disciples came in the little boat, for they were not far from the land, only about two hundred cubits, dragging the net of the fish.
Joh 21:9 Then when they went up on the land, they saw a coal fire lying, and a fish lying on it, and bread.
Joh 21:10 Jesus said to them, Bring from the little fish which you caught now.
Joh 21:11 Simon Peter went up and dragged the net onto the land, full of big fish, a hundred and fifty three. And though being so many, the net was not torn.
Joh 21:12 Jesus said to them, Come, break fast.

Jesus was flesh and blood; He hungered. He had hands and feet.

Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe."
Joh 20:26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you."
Joh 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe."

Side bar: Apparently, Peter fished in the nude!

Joh 21:7 That disciple whom Jesus loved therefore said to Peter, "It is the Lord!" When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment, for he was stripped for work, and threw himself into the sea.

Calvin writes:
"That Simon Peter Was Naked, is a proof that the disciples had labored in earnest;"
ch21/pg173 Calvins Commentaries



[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]
 

just_grace

Puritan Board Freshman
Flesh and blood...

Jesus came back from the dead. Yes God brought Jesus back to life.

He has now though ascended to the Father.

Does not Scripture say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven!

All will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. What is mortal will become immortal etc...

I would say no, now. It's an interesting one Scott.

Tell me, bit of a sideline but would Jesus have grown old and died. That would have been a crime because He did not deserve death because He never sinned.

He shared in our humanity, but I think God His Father has glorified Him and will glorify Him.

No eye has seen or ear heard what God has prepared for those that love Him.

The Corinthians asked questions like, 'what will resurrection day be like and what kind of body will we have'?

Paul said there was no comparison with the seed that goes into the ground dead ( as it were ) and what comes forth later.

All food for thought :detective:
 

just_grace

Puritan Board Freshman
Creatures...

John's description of the things that he saw in Revelation of 'living creatures' etc are interesting although his description of them were frustrated, he almost struggles to describe what they are like because he could only describe them in earthly terms.

What think ye?
 

Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
The living creatures spoken of in Revelation are angelic beings. They have wings, many eye's etc. They are not examples of Gods people.
 

just_grace

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Scott Bushey

What is that image? Glorified! Jesus Himself says that He is flesh and blood; this flesh is glorified; it can pass through walls, yet no less flesh and blood; not the perishable or duct, but revealing Gods power and glory.

The fact that Jesus walked on water before His death and resurrection, makes me believe that if He wanted to He could have walked through a wall or two if He so wanted.

We are also told of His appearance changing when He was transfigured.

What was Jesu's pre-existent form like, was He Spirit like His Father? Before the Word became flesh.

He also made it quite clear to the disciples that heavenly things were very hard to accept or understand. It is with the Spirit that we begin to grasp the thoughts of heaven and what is to come. :book2:

It's all so very very prooofoound :)
 

Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
Originally posted by just_grace
Originally posted by Scott Bushey

What is that image? Glorified! Jesus Himself says that He is flesh and blood; this flesh is glorified; it can pass through walls, yet no less flesh and blood; not the perishable or duct, but revealing Gods power and glory.

The fact that Jesus walked on water before His death and resurrection, makes me believe that if He wanted to He could have walked through a wall or two if He so wanted.

We are also told of His appearance changing when He was transfigured.

What was Jesu's pre-existent form like, was He Spirit like His Father? Before the Word became flesh.

He also made it quite clear to the disciples that heavenly things were very hard to accept or understand. It is with the Spirit that we begin to grasp the thoughts of heaven and what is to come. :book2:

It's all so very very prooofoound :)

David,
The distinction needs to be made in regards to the miracles of Christ and His glorified body; they are not the same things (even though, in our minds, it was miraculous). The scriptures clearly do not allude to the idea that his passing through a wal was a miracle. Typically, miracles were used by Christ to validate His power; it effected people personally. His walking through walls did not.

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]
 

just_grace

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
The living creatures spoken of in Revelation are angelic beings. They have wings, many eye's etc. They are not examples of Gods people.

The point I was trying to make is did they have blood in their veins and a heart that pumped to keep them alive or is it our limited understanding of things, our earthly existence that keeps us from comprehending spiritual things that we know nothing about. Different dimensions and all that.

Anybody want to use the chat room, I am in there now.
 

just_grace

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Scott Bushey

David,
The distinction needs to be made in regards to the miracles of Christ and His glorified body; they are not the same things (even though, in our minds, it was miraculous). The scriptures clearly do not allude to the idea that his passing through a wal was a miracle. Typically, miracles were used by Christ to validate His power; it effected people personally. His walking through walls did not.

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]

I agree.
 
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