Anglican Primates Suspend the Episcopal Church (USA)

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I will wait for our Anglican brothers to explain what this means, but it seems like kind of a big deal.

http://www.anglican.ink/article/pri...-church-full-participation-anglican-communion

The primates of the Anglican Communion have suspended the Episcopal Church from full participation in the life and work of the Anglican Communion. On 14 January 2016 a motion was presented to the gathering of archbishops and moderators gathered in the crypt of Canterbury Cathedral that called for the Episcopal Church to be suspended for a period of three years.

A copy of the resolution seen by Anglican Ink calls for the Episcopal Church to lose its “vote” in meetings of pan-Anglican institutions and assemblies, but preserves its “voice”, demoting the church to observer status..

 

[Vox Oculi]

Are they the same denomination? Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the Anglicans were one denom and the Episcopalians were another (or two, if you count the conservatives who broke off as being their own)?

 

[Jake]

Are they the same denomination? Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the Anglicans were one denom and the Episcopalians were another (or two, if you count the conservatives who broke off as being their own)?

There is a worldwide Anglican communion which includes the Protestant Episcopal Church (a.k.a., The Episcopal Church) in the US, Church of England, Anglican Church of Canada, etc. However, in a US context, more conservative groups like the ACNA tend to use the term Anglican, whereas the mainline church uses the term Episcopalian. However, there are also other groups that call themselves Episcopalian, like the Reformed Episcopal Church. But both Anglicans and Episcopalians hold to the 39 Articles, Book of Common Prayer, etc., at least on paper.

However, the Protestant Episcopal Church is one of the most liberal, if not the most liberal, parts of the worldwide Anglican Communion, hence the trouble they are causing. Some parts of the Anglican Communion are even relatively Reformed, like the Diocese of Sydney.

(BTW: Not Anglican. Forgive any mistakes or misunderstandings!)

 

[Vox Oculi]

I think that helps. That's a good example of why I find a knowledge of history so useful. I've pretty much only memorized the following:

PCUSA - liberal
PCA - conservative
OPC - more conservative

American Baptists - liberal
Southern Baptists - conservative on paper.
ed: IFB - probably the wackos I keep running into on Facebook, but not sure...

ELCA - liberal
Missouri Synod - conservative

And tentatively consider Methodism and Episcopalianism to be going down the tubes, but as just mentioned, that's where I lack intimate knowledge, even more so than the above simplifications.

 

[Edward]

PCUSA - liberal
PCA - conservative
OPC - more conservative

Bordering on off topic, but

PCUSA - liberal
PCA - moderate
OPC - conservative

 

[Edward]

I was waiting for something official so I could be sure I was commenting on the facts, not just rumors, but the communion as a whole has to make a choice between the millions of Anglicans in Africa, and the thousands in the US. In the past, US dollars have trumped poor Africans' bodies, but either the PECUSA gets pushed aside, or the Africans take a hike. There is no longer a middle ground. And the COE is in the middle, wanting to head down the road blazed by the Episcopalians, but being liberal enough to not want to cut ties to their Black brothers and sisters, while facing internal resistance from the few remaining conservative Bishops in England.

If the reports are accurate, the Primates finally reached a point where they had to fish or cut bait, and could no longer fashion compromises. And, if accurate, it is good news.

 

[Edward]

Here's the official statement. Not a full suspension.

http://www.primates2016.org/articles/2016/01/14/statement-primates-2016/

7. It is our unanimous desire to walk together. However given the seriousness of these matters we formally acknowledge this distance by requiring that for a period of three years The Episcopal Church no longer represent us on ecumenical and interfaith bodies, should not be appointed or elected to an internal standing committee and that while participating in the internal bodies of the Anglican Communion, they will not take part in decision making on any issues pertaining to doctrine or polity.

8. We have asked the Archbishop of Canterbury to appoint a Task Group to maintain conversation among ourselves with the intention of restoration of relationship, the rebuilding of mutual trust, healing the legacy of hurt, recognising the extent of our commonality and exploring our deep differences, ensuring they are held between us in the love and grace of Christ.

----

Looks like the Ugandan archbishop (a strong conservative) forced the issue by walking out.

http://www.virtueonline.org/canterbury-ugandan-primate-leaves-primatial-meeting-early

 

[Vox Oculi]

They'll undoubtedly still be seen as bad guys by liberal media.

 

[Philip]

Not a full suspension.

The time limit is so that TEC can respond at their next convention. A similar measure was passed at a Primates meeting in 2007, but ABC Rowan Williams (a liberal-leaning Anglo-Catholic) unilaterally vetoed it by inviting TEC bishops to Lambeth the next year, prompting the creation of the Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCon), a conservative alternative which called for the creation of a new Anglican jurisdiction in North America.

Abp Welby is much more concerned with the global church than was Williams, and has a lot of contacts and sympathy in the African churches. My prediction is that he will be present and presiding at the next GAFCon, whereas at the last one in Nairobi, he preached at the Cathedral the Sunday before it started to claim plausible deniability while still making a statement (his sermon was quite good, BTW)

 

[jwithnell]

I find it interesting that the African churches have largely been seeing the homosexual issue as a continuance of British empiricism on local values.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Here is a prayer that was printed in my congregation's announcement sheet last Sabbath morning:

Almighty God to whom all will someday give account; instill we pray, within the hearts of all the Primates of the Anglican Communion, a holy fear that they may love you and your Word more than the approval of men; this we ask through our only mediator and head of your Church, Jesus Christ, who evermore lives and reigns with you and your Holy Spirit. Amen.

 

[Parakaleo]

How do you pronounce "Primates" in such a way that others don't think you are talking about baboons? Does it help to use an English accent that makes the "i" really short?

"Pr'mats".

 

[Philip]

I find it interesting that the African churches have largely been seeing the homosexual issue as a continuance of British empiricism on local values.

I think you mean imperialism. I doubt that the African churches are all that concerned about the legacy of David Hume and Bertrand Russell.

How do you pronounce "Primates" in such a way that others don't think you are talking about baboons? Does it help to use an English accent that makes the "i" really short?

"PRY-mut" is the correct pronunciation, though many also pronounce it like the simian animal classification.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

How do you pronounce "Primates" in such a way that others don't think you are talking about baboons? Does it help to use an English accent that makes the "i" really short?

"Pr'mats".

Funny you should mention that point. The minister of my congregation was explaining to people what was meant by Primates and he said "It does not refer to monkeys, but you might get more sense out of monkeys than some of these primates."

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Originally Posted by jwithnell
I find it interesting that the African churches have largely been seeing the homosexual issue as a continuance of British empiricism on local values.
I think you mean imperialism. I doubt that the African churches are all that concerned about the legacy of David Hume and Bertrand Russell.

 

[VictorBravo]

I think you mean imperialism. I doubt that the African churches are all that concerned about the legacy of David Hume and Bertrand Russell.

X2....

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Here is the TEC response

http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/...all-for-temporary-episcopal-church-sanctions/

 

[Vox Oculi]

I recommend to all at this present moment who have facebook, to take the pulse of the Episcopal community writ large by viewing the trending posts on social media. Lots of people proudly saying they think the pro ssm vote was the right thing. Their confidence is more worrying.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Here is the TEC response

http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/...all-for-temporary-episcopal-church-sanctions/

 

[Edward]

Here is the TEC response

Looks like Curry found out that while playing the 'card' works in his predominately white denomination, it didn't carry weight with the African and Asian archbishops.

 

[Vox Oculi]

How secular media is reporting it:

USA Today

Jeffrey Walton, the Anglican program director at the Institute for Religion an Democracy in Washington, D.C., said the suspension of the Episcopal Church is significant, but does not, at this point, represent a schism, or irreparable rupture, within the Anglican Communion.

“This is not kicking the Episcopal Church out of the Anglican Communion, but it is saying is that by making these decisions for the past 12 or so years the Episcopal Church has created this distance and there will be consequences to those decisions.”

Other Anglican experts were mystified at the Anglican Communion’s statement, which consisted of eight brief points.

“This is not how Anglicans should behave,” said Christina Rees, a member of the General Synod, the governing body of the Church of England. “It’s awful. It’s a terrible outcome to the meeting of the primates in Canterbury. What action will now be taken against all those churches in the Anglican Communion who treat gay men and women as criminals? Will they be suspended for three years, too?”

Jim Naughton, former canon for the Archdiocese of Washington and now a communications consultant specializing in the Episcopal Church, called the sanctions a “weird” attempt by the primates to take power away from elected bodies and claim it for themselves.

But Naughton expects no impact in the life of the Episcopal Church.

“We can accept these actions with grace and humility but the Episcopal Church is not going back,” Naughton said. “We can’t repent what is not sin.”

Washington Post

Last year, the Episcopal Church elected its first black presiding bishop, Michael Curry, who just began his new role. Curry told the primates that the statement calling for the sanction would be painful for many in the Episcopal Church to receive. In remarks he has made available to Episcopal News Service, Curry said the Episcopal Church has a “commitment to be an inclusive church.”

“I stand before you as a descendant of African slaves, stolen from their native land, enslaved in a bitter bondage, and then even after emancipation, segregated and excluded in church and society,” Curry told the primates. “And this conjures that up again, and brings pain.”

Like other mainline denominations, the Episcopal Church has struggled to fill its pews in recent years. It has lost more than 20 percent of its members since it consecrated Robinson in 2003, and new statistics suggest that membership continues to fall, dropping 2.7 percent from 2013 to about 1.8 million U.S. members in 2014.

 

[Vox Oculi]

Almost as quotable as the Diet of Worms....the African Primates....just one of those things that are born for history textbooks.

 

[MW]

Having been baptised in the Anglican church in Sydney, and having learnt some rudiments of the faith there, it always saddens me to see this branch of the church demonstrating the basis of its union and communion in human consensus to the detriment of obeying the will of Christ.

 

[ZackF]

Here is the TEC response

Looks like Curry found out that while playing the 'card' works in his predominately white denomination, it didn't carry weight with the African and Asian archbishops.

That response was painful to read; utterly gospeless, hopeless and with no attempt at even the appearance at introspection for the state of his "church." I pray for Curry's soul as the man is clearly deluded. The comments are as telling. A lost leader with lost followers. What I fear is this won't trigger repentance but Pharisaism and a jump to Rome by TEC's few remaining conservative members.

 

[Peairtach]

I find it interesting that the African churches have largely been seeing the homosexual issue as a continuance of British empiricism on local values.

British imperialism.

This is "a card'' they might play, but these are no longer British imperialists, but British liberals and yellow Tories, imposing "values" that would be incomprehensible during the Empire, and even fifteen or twenty years ago.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Philip]

Here is the TEC response

http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/...all-for-temporary-episcopal-church-sanctions/

A lot of spin going on there, especially downplaying the role and significance of Abp Beach's presence at Cannterbury.

This is "a card'' they might play, but these are no longer British imperialists, but British liberals and yellow Tories, imposing "values" that would be incomprehensible during the Empire, and even fifteen or twenty years ago.

The new proggressive whiggism is just as imperialistic as the old one. All over the web, I'm seeing the tired cliches about how Africa and Asia need to enter the modern world and how backward and barbaric these Christian leaders are.

 

[jwithnell]

In my family that would be referred to as a Jeanism, whoops!

 

[yeutter]

Having been baptised in the Anglican church in Sydney, and having learnt some rudiments of the faith there, it always saddens me to see this branch of the church demonstrating the basis of its union and communion in human consensus to the detriment of obeying the will of Christ.

The Archbishop of Uganda walked out early rather then involve himself in this sophistry.

 

[Vox Oculi]

Maybe slightly off topic, but hey, this is meant to be educational after all:

My knowledge of the Whigs in US history is limited. I know they were supplanted by the formation of the Republican party, and much of its support came from former Whigs. Beyond that, I don't know exactly what a "progressive Whig" would be, and especially not if the term has meaning in British politics apart from whatever it means/meant in American history.

So, do feel free to elaborate and elucidate. 'Ready to learn.

 

[yeutter]

The new proggressive whiggism is just as imperialistic as the old one. All over the web, I'm seeing the tired cliches about how Africa and Asia need to enter the modern world and how backward and barbaric these Christian leaders are.

I take the term Whiggism to mean that innovation and liberty are to be prized above tradition for the sake of innovation and liberty.