Andy Stanley Talks Calvinism

Discussion in 'General discussions' started by Ryan&Amber2013, Jan 11, 2019.

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  1. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Junior

    I thought this was interesting. What are your thoughts?
    Around 20 minutes in is really interesting when he addresses how we view being "deep" with Christianity.

  2. Bill The Baptist

    Bill The Baptist Puritan Board Graduate

    I wouldn’t listen to Andy Stanley telling me how to cook pasta much less telling me about theology.
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  3. arapahoepark

    arapahoepark Puritan Board Graduate

    James white did a two part series reviewing it. I have not heard it in its entirety yet but the snippets I have heard show the spirit of the age. Shallow. Deliberately ignorant. There are so many more words out there.
  4. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    Andy Stanley is sad that the Southern Baptists have become so Calvinistic.

    But he has hope that things will get better, since "God is in control."

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  5. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable

    Lex orandi, lex credenda

  6. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

  7. Semper Fidelis

    Semper Fidelis 2 Timothy 2:24-25 Staff Member

    It's interesting to read Turretin's Institutes of Elenctic Theology as he puts the motivation of Arminius and his followers trying to get to the goodness or fairness of God. That seems like a perennial motivation among Christians who try to get around Scripture's teaching about the nature of God, man, sin, etc.

    Theologians in the past made pretty sophisticated systems trying to tie it all together and, in the process, they compromised many important doctrines but the modern proponents like Stanley are terribly shallow.

    I listen to the Unbelievable Radio program on a weekly basis. Thankfully I'm running while listening to it because I'm too out of breath to get too worked up but Stanly is pretty consistent with what I'm seeing in Evangelicals these days. The most important thing is the "jourrney" for many. I think they genuinently conceive of faith as not supernatural and many are quite willing to jettison just about any doctrine as long as Jesus is acceptable to the person to whom they are appealing.

    Stanley doesn't just have a problem with God's decree. I don't even know if he's sophisticated enough or doesn't really care whether he's building opennness in God or sees God in a process theology schema. The most important thing is to rescue Christians from having to defend anything in Christianity that the world disapproves of.

    The Old Testament is filled with "problematic" passages. Solution: borrow the old liberal trope that this is primarily the writings of a primitive people who project their ideas on God.

    The Christianity they accept is a sort of "I don't know about anything for sure except that the nature of God is found in Jesus". Mind you it's not the Jesus of the Scriptures because whatever Christ or Paul write that they don't like is shaved off into a "whatever I think is good, that's what Jesus reveals of God" kind of theology.

    Last week on Unbelievable is a good example of the mindset: an egalitarian female was arguing for her point but every time the complimentarian Pastor quoted Scripture she chalked it up to Paul or Peter being patriarchal in their views. The important thing, again, is how theology comports with how we conceive love and God and Christ will fit into that paradigm.

    Thus, don't look too hard for any kind of exegetical or theological consistency. There is none. The primary truth is whatever "loving people" looks like in their eyes is the theological system and everything in Scripture and theology will bow to it.
  8. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

    This here is the core of it, I believe. There is an a priori commitment to define Christianity according to and within the limits of one’s personal sensibilities. And because the commitment is a priori, any information that does not fit the scheme can be dismissed out of hand without any further consideration.
  9. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Freshman

    That brought me to this video from Dr.Flowers....

    Not sure how he would respond to many of his own criticisms using his own theological lens/logic, whatever his form of ‘traditionalism’ even means....?
    I mean, just based on human experience it is easy to tell that relatively few truly believe or are in a position to do so..... this must speak to the sovereignty of God..... If they want to twist that to mean that God is the primary cause of evil, or the like, that is on them.....

    I’m not sure how we are not wholly God-dependent creatures no matter what ‘ism’ we lay claim
  10. Stephen L Smith

    Stephen L Smith Moderator

    If my understanding of things is correct, Andy grew up in an Arminian and Young Earth Creationist home. Ken Ham has praised the Young Earth Creationist views of his Father.

    Although a Young Earth Creationist myself, it seems to me this view does not in itself give a solid bulwark agaist theological decline. I think Calvinist theology gives a better bulwark.

    If only Ken Ham understood this.
  11. bookslover

    bookslover Puritan Board Professor

    Well, the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament are fulfilled in Christ, and the civil laws are also no longer binding (except in their general equity) as Old Testament Israel no longer exists.
  12. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

    Of course. But that is not all Stanley is advocating. To quote the article I cited, “Jesus issued his new commandment as a replacement for everything in the existing list. Including the big ten. Just as his new covenant replaced the old covenant, Jesus’ new commandment replaced all the old commandments.” Therefore, he concludes, “Participants in the new covenant (that’s Christians) are not required to obey any of the commandments found in the first part of their Bibles.
  13. Joshua

    Joshua Administrator Staff Member

  14. bookslover

    bookslover Puritan Board Professor

    Andy Stanley, son of Baptist pastor Charles Stanley. I feel sorry for his dad. Charles didn't teach sonny-boy the things he's now spouting.
  15. Herald

    Herald Administrator Staff Member

    Now, Bill, he may have some great pasta recipes. Let's not throw the tortellini out with the bathwater.
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  16. Herald

    Herald Administrator Staff Member

    I've had my run-ins with Flowers on another venue. All I can say is, "broken record much?"
  17. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    I really hope you don't cook pasta using bathwater.
  18. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

    Seriously. It’s literally all he does. I worry about him, honestly. Knowing my own heart, when I was as zealous for attacking the “other side” as he was, I literally went to bed at night and fell asleep thinking about how I can clobber the Arminians the next day. I don’t know his heart, but I personally harbored a lot of hatred for Arminians back when I was in the cage he is currently in. Defeating the Arminians is all I thought about all the time, to the exclusion of almost everything more important.
  19. Joshua

    Joshua Administrator Staff Member

    Literally. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. :pilgrim:
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  20. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    I’ll play armchair shrink. The claims of Calvinism trouble him personally. Maybe he encounters this pastorally from his members or he is wrestling with the doctrines of grace in his own heart. Why doesn’t the younger Stanley have a problem with open theism, charismatic lunacy, or anything else? When put in the broader evangelical context, Calvinistic churches are smaller than Arminian. Does mega-church scene have nothing to be criticized? Pray for him.
  21. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

    Ugh, you’re being so literal right now. Literally.
  22. Herald

    Herald Administrator Staff Member

    Flowers and I conversed online more than a few times. The hardest part was finding common ground on which to have a fruitful discussion. It was nigh impossible to get past the definition of terms. In my humble opinion he fancies himself to be a self-appointed authority. I think he is getting more attention than he deserves.
  23. Stephen L Smith

    Stephen L Smith Moderator

    Well the 'Prince' of Arminians, David Cloud, takes many passages literally in his sermon that Calvinism is the 'enemy'. Rev 22:17 clearly says "And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." After all 'whosoever will' should be taken literally right? I did wonder how many on the PB would remain Calvinists after hearing Mr Cloud take verses of scripture 'literally'. In case you were wondering, I was being factitious :)

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