Andy Stanley: if you don't attend large church, you don't care about your kids

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earl40

Puritan Board Professor
I'm not too thrilled by the cultural pattern that people are pretty much slammed throughout the week with various scheduling things like sports and music activities so what some Churches are able to do is to offer some of those things for free and the Church becomes the place where, instead of everyone being scattered, they end up at that Church. Instead of only seeing each other on Sunday, they see each other throughout the week.
Just to be fair to those that are slammed during the other 6 days a week I understand and am very sympathetic in that I am one of those. Now do not get me wrong my favorite people to be around is other Christians and am blessed to be around a lot of them even though they are not part of my local body. This area is one I am very concerned about because I wish not to make any feel guilty because they don't participate in the other extra curricular activities (Secular) a church may offer. I know for a fact that many feel and think one is not spiritual enough if they do not tear themselves away home or work during the regular days of the week to hang around the facility at the local church. Now I wish to express this with the utmost respect for you Rich but the ones I get this feeling is from is elders and those who are able and willing to be there the other 6 days a week. :)
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
I'm not too thrilled by the cultural pattern that people are pretty much slammed throughout the week with various scheduling things like sports and music activities so what some Churches are able to do is to offer some of those things for free and the Church becomes the place where, instead of everyone being scattered, they end up at that Church. Instead of only seeing each other on Sunday, they see each other throughout the week.
Just to be fair to those that are slammed during the other 6 days a week I understand and am very sympathetic in that I am one of those. Now do not get me wrong my favorite people to be around is other Christians and am blessed to be around a lot of them even though they are not part of my local body. This area is one I am very concerned about because I wish not to make any feel guilty because they don't participate in the other extra curricular activities (Secular) a church may offer. I know for a fact that many feel and think one is not spiritual enough if they do not tear themselves away home or work during the regular days of the week to hang around the facility at the local church. Now I wish to express this with the utmost respect for you Rich but the ones I get this feeling is from is elders and those who are able and willing to be there the other 6 days a week. :)
It's not the extracurricular activities I'm worried about. It's things like mid-week prayer or even just being there for others when they need you. I understand many people have work schedules that don't lend themselves to a lot of time other than the Lord's Day. That said, most people busy themselves with a lot of extracurricular activities with their kids and then don't want to do much at all with the Church on Sundays and many people don't know them well because they're busy with soccer, music instruction, etc.

I've got five kids and we've just decided we can't "round out" every kid (using the cultural term). We just don't have the time to involve them in sports if we're going to school them and have a little bit of family time with them and then have time left over for people in the Church. We reserve time and priority for the Body (like prayer, service activities, etc).
 

earl40

Puritan Board Professor
It's not the extracurricular activities I'm worried about. It's things like mid-week prayer or even just being there for others when they need you. I understand many people have work schedules that don't lend themselves to a lot of time other than the Lord's Day. That said, most people busy themselves with a lot of extracurricular activities with their kids and then don't want to do much at all with the Church on Sundays and many people don't know them well because they're busy with soccer, music instruction, etc.

I've got five kids and we've just decided we can't "round out" every kid (using the cultural term). We just don't have the time to involve them in sports if we're going to school them and have a little bit of family time with them and then have time left over for people in the Church. We reserve time and priority for the Body (like prayer, service activities, etc).
Believe it or not I am with you generally speaking, because each family situation is different and you,as an elder, would be expected to be more involved in the local body than many who are not elders or deacons. Now if you have a heart attack I will be there for you. :)
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
I'm not too thrilled by the cultural pattern that people are pretty much slammed throughout the week with various scheduling things like sports and music activities so what some Churches are able to do is to offer some of those things for free and the Church becomes the place where, instead of everyone being scattered, they end up at that Church. Instead of only seeing each other on Sunday, they see each other throughout the week.
Just to be fair to those that are slammed during the other 6 days a week I understand and am very sympathetic in that I am one of those. Now do not get me wrong my favorite people to be around is other Christians and am blessed to be around a lot of them even though they are not part of my local body. This area is one I am very concerned about because I wish not to make any feel guilty because they don't participate in the other extra curricular activities (Secular) a church may offer. I know for a fact that many feel and think one is not spiritual enough if they do not tear themselves away home or work during the regular days of the week to hang around the facility at the local church. Now I wish to express this with the utmost respect for you Rich but the ones I get this feeling is from is elders and those who are able and willing to be there the other 6 days a week. :)
It's not the extracurricular activities I'm worried about. It's things like mid-week prayer or even just being there for others when they need you. I understand many people have work schedules that don't lend themselves to a lot of time other than the Lord's Day. That said, most people busy themselves with a lot of extracurricular activities with their kids and then don't want to do much at all with the Church on Sundays and many people don't know them well because they're busy with soccer, music instruction, etc.

I've got five kids and we've just decided we can't "round out" every kid (using the cultural term). We just don't have the time to involve them in sports if we're going to school them and have a little bit of family time with them and then have time left over for people in the Church. We reserve time and priority for the Body (like prayer, service activities, etc).
I really appreciate this Rich. I played about a million sports as a kid and feel like sometimes I am cheating my four kids because we can only afford (both time and money) for them to do one thing each. Knowing that we are not the only ones making these decisions in favor of church/family time soothes my soul a bit.
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
Ben,

I don't know if your situation is like mine but I participated in Soccer as a kid (as did my two brothers) but we all rode our bicycles to practice (about a half mile from our house). Same situation with baseball where the ball field was about a mile away and we rode our bikes to both the games and the practice. My parents sometimes watched our games but I don't remember them being at a lot of them. Even if I wanted to let them do the same, we live way too far off and youth sports has taken on an intensity that was never the case when I was growing up.

I also figure that they can take up sports later in life but it's just not a huge priority for us.
 

Paul1976

Puritan Board Freshman
Which is more selfish? For parents to attend a smaller church where there are a few children being trained to love the glory of Jesus Christ, or to attend a megachurch with hundreds or thousands of kids, mostly from unregenerate families, where good broadly biblical morals and life principles are proclaimed and the gospel is an afterthought?
 

Jack K

Puritan Board Professor
where good broadly biblical morals and life principles are proclaimed and the gospel is an afterthought?
It's good to beware of this kind of church. But it is a mistake to associate this situation with large churches. There are plenty of both large and small churches that fall into this trap, and both large and small churches manage to avoid it as well.

The error in the sermon excerpt we're discussing was the assumption that small church = a certain selfish attitude. We should be careful not to make similar assumptions about large churches in general. To do so would be just as insulting as the original statement was.
 

Paul1976

Puritan Board Freshman
Looks like North Point got the video removed from Youtube. Interestingly, there are lots of other Andy Stanley sermons from North Point where they seem unconcerned about copyright issues.
 

Dwimble

Puritan Board Freshman
Stanley has issued a fuller apology here. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ley-explains-controversial-remar.html?start=1 I think we should applaud him for apologizing, however if you listen to the full sermon from which this came, there is still a big problem. The whole thing plays like an advertisement for how great his church is. http://northpoint.org/messages/saved-by-the-church/
I read the small interview with his apology. I must say, it is unusual and refreshing to see someone give such a thorough and completely unequivocal apology. He states as clearly as anyone could expect how completely wrong and terrible his words were. Even when it looks like the interviewer is trying to give him a "taken out-of-context" escape, he reiterates that no matter how you look at it, whether in context or out, his words were terrible and he will make no excuses. He was even hesitant to talk about intentions and what he should have said, because he didn't want it to look like he was making excuses or trying to downplay how bad it was.

Regardless of what anyone make think of his theology, it is hard to find any fault with how he has dealt with this situation. Most public figures would do well to learn from his example.
 

Edward

Puritanboard Commissioner
Looks like North Point got the video removed from Youtube. Interestingly, there are lots of other Andy Stanley sermons from North Point where they seem unconcerned about copyright issues.
Well, some folks are demanding that it be taken down http://www.mortificationofspin.org/mos/1517/a-sincere-proposal-for-andy-stanley#.Vt9OBlUrKM_ while you complain if it is taken down. Even Solomon couldn't make both you and Todd Pruitt happy on this point.

Stanley has repudiated the statement and made an unqualified apology. I suggest folks now look elsewhere for a pound of flesh.
 

Bill The Baptist

Puritan Board Graduate
Looks like North Point got the video removed from Youtube. Interestingly, there are lots of other Andy Stanley sermons from North Point where they seem unconcerned about copyright issues.
Well, some folks are demanding that it be taken down http://www.mortificationofspin.org/mos/1517/a-sincere-proposal-for-andy-stanley#.Vt9OBlUrKM_ while you complain if it is taken down. Even Solomon couldn't make both you and Todd Pruitt happy on this point.

Stanley has repudiated the statement and made an unqualified apology. I suggest folks now look elsewhere for a pound of flesh.
I agree with your sentiment. He has apologized, so let's move on. However, just to clarify, some people were demanding that the sermon be removed from North Point's website, which it has not been. The video that was removed from Youtube was just the brief clip that contained the offensive portion of the sermon. North Point requested it be removed because they did not post it. They typically only post entire sermons, and not just brief clips.
 

Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
The error in the sermon excerpt we're discussing was the assumption that small church = a certain selfish attitude. We should be careful not to make similar assumptions about large churches in general. To do so would be just as insulting as the original statement was.
Well put.
 

ReformedChristian

Puritan Board Freshman
Christ said his church would be a little flock Luke 12:32. It does not matter the size of the church really what is important is that sound doctrine is preached.
 
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