Amillennial help

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RJ Spencer

Puritan Board Freshman
Recently I realized that my views regarding the first resurrection are not as widely held by fellow Amillennial's that I had believed. It seems that the majority of Amillennial's believe that the first resurrection is Regeneration, are there any particular Bible verses that support this view?

I've always held that the first resurrection is when we meet the Lord in Heaven at the moment we die. I use Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:34-36, II Corinthians 5:8, Revelation 20:13 as proof texts for my position.
I will not argue much if you hold the first view, because I really want to know if I am wrong.
 
John 5:24-26:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Jn 5:24–26). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Calvin:

"Verily, verily. When the Evangelist represents the Son of God as swearing so frequently in reference to our salvation, hence we perceive, first, how eagerly he desires our welfare, and next, of how great importance it is that the faith of the Gospel should be deeply fixed and thoroughly confirmed. The statement has indeed some appearance of being incredible, when we are told that this is the effect of the faith of which Christ speaks; and therefore he confirms by an oath that the voice of his Gospel has such power of giving life that it is powerful to raise the dead. It is generally agreed that he speaks of spiritual death; for those who refer it to Lazarus, (John 11:44,) and to the widow’s son at Nain, (Luke 7:15,) and similar instances, are refuted by what follows. First, Christ shows that we are all dead before he quickens us; and hence it is evident what the whole nature of man can accomplish towards procuring salvation.

Calvin, J., & Pringle, W. (2010). Commentary on the Gospel according to John (Vol. 1, p. 205). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

Augustin:

"WHAT IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION, AND WHAT THE SECOND

1. After that He adds the words, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself.” As yet He does not speak of the second resurrection, that is, the resurrection of the body, which shall be in the end, but of the first, which now is. It is for the sake of making this distinction that He says, “The hour is coming, and now is.” Now this resurrection regards not the body, but the soul. For souls, too, have a death of their own in wickedness and sins, whereby they are the dead of whom the same lips say, “Suffer the dead to bury their dead,”3—that is, let those who are dead in soul bury them that are dead in body. It is of these dead, then—the dead in ungodliness and wickedness—that He says, “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live.” “They that hear,” that is, they who obey, believe, and persevere to the end. Here no difference is made between the good and the bad. For it is good for all men to hear His voice and live, by passing to the life of godliness from the death of ungodliness. Of this death the Apostle Paul says, “Therefore all are dead, and He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them and rose again.” Thus all, without one exception, were dead in sins, whether original or voluntary sins, sins of ignorance, or sins committed against knowledge; and for all the dead there died the one only person who lived, that is, who had no sin whatever, in order that they who live by the remission of their sins should live, not to themselves, but to Him who died for all, for our sins, and rose again for our justification, that we, believing in Him who justifies the ungodly, and being justified from ungodliness or quickened from death, may be able to attain to the first resurrection which now is. For in this first resurrection none have a part save those who shall be eternally blessed; but in the second, of which He goes on to speak, all, as we shall learn, have a part, both the blessed and the wretched. The one is the resurrection of mercy, the other of judgment. And therefore it is written in the psalm, “I will sing of mercy and of judgment: unto Thee, O Lord, will I sing.”


Augustine of Hippo. (1887). The City of God. In P. Schaff (Ed.), M. Dods (Trans.), St. Augustin’s City of God and Christian Doctrine (Vol. 2, p. 425). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.
 
John Flavel:

“Blessed and holy (saith the Spirit), is he that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death hath no power,” Rev 20:6. Never let unregenerate souls expect a comfortable meeting with their bodies again. Rise they shall by God’s terrible citation, at the sound of the last trump, but not to the same end that the saints arise, nor by the same principle. They to whom the spirit is now a principle of sanctification, to them he will be the principle of a joyful resurrection. See then that you get gracious souls now, or never expect glorious bodies then.
 
Shedd:

The tropical use of “resurrection” to denote regeneration is a characteristic of St. John, as well as of St. Paul. In John 5:25–29 our Lord speaks of two resurrections, the first of which is spiritual, and the second is corporeal: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming and now is when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” The reference, here, is to the regeneration of the human soul, which is often called a resurrection, as the following passages show: “He that believes on me is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24); “he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live, and whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die” (11:25–26); “as Christ was raised from the dead, even so we also should walk in newness of life” (Rom. 6:4); “arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you life” (Eph. 5:14); “if you be risen with Christ, seek those things that are above” (Col. 3:1); “when we were dead in sins, God quickened us and raised us up and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:6); “entombed with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God” (Col. 2:12).
After speaking of regeneration as a spiritual resurrection, our Lord proceeds to speak of another resurrection which he describes as corporeal: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming [he does not say: and now is], in the which all that are in their graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, they that have done good unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation.” This is the literal resurrection of the body; and this is the “second resurrection” in relation to the first tropical resurrection. The regeneration of the soul, according to St. Paul, results in the resurrection of the body: “If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his spirit that dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11). It should be noticed that while Christ in John 5:25–29 directly mentions both resurrections, St. John in Rev. 20:5–6 directly mentions only one, namely, the “first resurrection.” He leaves the “second resurrection,” namely, that of the body, to be inferred. That the “first resurrection” in 20:6 is spiritual is proved still further by the fact that those who have part in it are “blessed and holy” and not “under the power of the second death” and are “priests of God.” The literal resurrection is not necessarily connected with such characteristics, but the tropical is.


Shedd, W. G. T. (2003). Dogmatic theology. (A. W. Gomes, Ed.) (3rd ed., pp. 864–865). Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub.
 
Thanks, Robert, for the quotes!

RJ, I also hold to regeneration as the 1st resurrection (a proof text I like is, Eph 2:5, 6, speaking of God, who "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus").

I have heard godly men speak of the time of our deaths and going to be with the Lord as you do. It is not something I argue over, that is, it is not a big deal to me, when there are so many other matters that are "big deals". And Robert's quotes above are eloquent.
 
RJ Spencer said:
Recently I realized that my views regarding the first resurrection are not as widely held by fellow Amillennial's that I had believed. It seems that the majority of Amillennial's believe that the first resurrection is Regeneration, are there any particular Bible verses that support this view?

I've always held that the first resurrection is when we meet the Lord in Heaven at the moment we die. I use Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:34-36, II Corinthians 5:8, Revelation 20:13 as proof texts for my position.
I will not argue much if you hold the first view, because I really want to know if I am wrong.
Click to expand...
2 questions that need to be addressed on this interesting op.
The first resurrection tied into the first coming ?
Is the Grest White Throne for both saved and lost, or just the lost?
 
Dachaser said:
2 questions that need to be addressed on this interesting op.
The first resurrection tied into the first coming ?
Is the Grest White Throne for both saved and lost, or just the lost?
Click to expand...

I would say that there is only one judgment for all people. Jesus makes it seem that way
Matthew 25:31-46 , sheep to the right and goats to the left. But the judgment for believers will just be a formality. The judgment for most will be a chance for them to give account for their sins, we will not be required to give an account because the judge will see us clothed with the righteousness of Christ.

As to your first question you may have to elaborate. I am not sure what you are asking.
 
RJ Spencer said:
I would say that there is only one judgment for all people. Jesus makes it seem that way
Matthew 25:31-46 , sheep to the right and goats to the left. But the judgment for believers will just be a formality. The judgment for most will be a chance for them to give account for their sins, we will not be required to give an account because the judge will see us clothed with the righteousness of Christ.

As to your first question you may have to elaborate. I am not sure what you are asking.
Click to expand...
The first resurrection from my understanding seems to tie into the Second Coming, as as that is when only the saved in Christ are raised up in glorified forms. So first resurrection seems to be when we all have our final state assigned to us by God, bodies reuinited with our souls!
 
Dachaser said:
The first resurrection from my understanding seems to tie into the Second Coming, as as that is when only the saved in Christ are raised up in glorified forms. So first resurrection seems to be when we all have our final state assigned to us by God, bodies reuinited with our souls!
Click to expand...

Did you by chance read the quotes from Calvin, Flavel, Shedd, and Augustin that I posted?
 
Dachaser said:
The first resurrection seems to be tied by both Paul and John to the second coming itself, as in Revelation 20 and 1 Corinthians 15.
Click to expand...

It "seems to be" based on what? How are you coming to that conclusion? The quotes I posted are judicious in explaining why it is referring to regeneration. They don't just state assumptions as matter-of-facts without providing any exegesis.
 
Reformed Bookworm said:
It "seems to be" based on what? How are you coming to that conclusion? The quotes I posted are judicious in explaining why it is referring to regeneration. They don't just state assumptions as matter-of-facts without providing any exegesis.
Click to expand...
Resurrection from the biblical perspective was Jewish, physical bodily resurrection from the dead, as referenced inDaniel and Paul and John.
 
Dachaser said:
By tieing biblical resurrection as being all aspects of the saved being raised up and glorified, as expressed in Daniel and reaffirmed by Paul.
Click to expand...

Even if you were correct, this is outside of what the OP was asking about. Please be considerate of threads and do not derail them.
 
TylerRay said:
Thread officially hijacked.
Click to expand...

I do not mind at all. I appreciate the dialogue, even if it is outside the realms of my original post. My only problem is that my question was asked of fellow Amillennials and it seems that David is a premill.
 
My next Question does tie in some with what David was asking...

There are verses that suggest that the first resurrection will include physical bodies, Job 19:26, Matthew 27:52. However, even if this were the case, there is nothing to suggest that we will not have 'bodies' in heaven. In fact, if we believe that our bodies will be like Christ's, then we will surely have a body. Also Revelation 6:9-11 shows us that we will wear clothes in heaven, without an actual body will we be able to wear clothing? I appreciate the quotes that you shared and I do Not claim to even have a tenth of the biblical knowledge that most of the men you quoted have. I have heard that many of those men were actually post mill though?
Would you say that Luke 20:34-36 is speaking about the new earth rather than the millennium?
 
RJ,

Indeed Luke 20:34,35,36 are in "that world" [or age / aion], meaning the eternal state on new earth. There are only two ages—"this present evil world" Gal 1:4—and "the world to come" (Matt 12:32; see also Matt 13:39,40,49; Luke 18:29,30; Eph 1:20,21; etc). Making a third age / aion / world would go against the Biblical two-age teaching, as a supposed literal millennium—quite distinct from this present evil age and the eternal state—would posit such a third age.
 
RJ Spencer said:
My next Question does tie in some with what David was asking...

There are verses that suggest that the first resurrection will include physical bodies, Job 19:26, Matthew 27:52. However, even if this were the case, there is nothing to suggest that we will not have 'bodies' in heaven. In fact, if we believe that our bodies will be like Christ's, then we will surely have a body. Also Revelation 6:9-11 shows us that we will wear clothes in heaven, without an actual body will we be able to wear clothing? I appreciate the quotes that you shared and I do Not claim to even have a tenth of the biblical knowledge that most of the men you quoted have. I have heard that many of those men were actually post mill though?
Would you say that Luke 20:34-36 is speaking about the new earth rather than the millennium?
Click to expand...
The saints before throne of God are still awaiting their glorified bofies while in Heaven, dors seem to suggedt hat there is an intermediate stage for us before the second coming.
 
RJ Spencer said:
My next Question does tie in some with what David was asking...

There are verses that suggest that the first resurrection will include physical bodies, Job 19:26, Matthew 27:52. However, even if this were the case, there is nothing to suggest that we will not have 'bodies' in heaven. In fact, if we believe that our bodies will be like Christ's, then we will surely have a body. Also Revelation 6:9-11 shows us that we will wear clothes in heaven, without an actual body will we be able to wear clothing? I appreciate the quotes that you shared and I do Not claim to even have a tenth of the biblical knowledge that most of the men you quoted have. I have heard that many of those men were actually post mill though?
Would you say that Luke 20:34-36 is speaking about the new earth rather than the millennium?
Click to expand...
Job is speaking of a bodily resurrection at the last day--when his Redeemer shall stand upon the earth. That's Judgment Day: the day when all bodies shall leave their graves, rather than the first resurrection when God quickens a sinner. The Matthew 27:52 incident was not a first resurrection, it was a miraculous manifestation like Lazarus' raising, locally and not since repeated. It cannot be termed the "first resurrection."
As for having bodies in heaven, we are told that at death we join the "Spirits of just men made perfect" I take that to mean that body and soul are separated as we await the resurrection of the last day when the body we live in now (see Job) will be raised by God's power and joined to our spirits.
The white robes in Revelation 6 I take to be symbolic, like the other instance where those arrayed in white robes had washed them in the blood of the lamb. Lots of symbolic language in Revelation.
 
Ben Zartman said:
Job is speaking of a bodily resurrection at the last day--when his Redeemer shall stand upon the earth. That's Judgment Day: the day when all bodies shall leave their graves, rather than the first resurrection when God quickens a sinner. The Matthew 27:52 incident was not a first resurrection, it was a miraculous manifestation like Lazarus' raising, locally and not since repeated. It cannot be termed the "first resurrection."
As for having bodies in heaven, we are told that at death we join the "Spirits of just men made perfect" I take that to mean that body and soul are separated as we await the resurrection of the last day when the body we live in now (see Job) will be raised by God's power and joined to our spirits.
The white robes in Revelation 6 I take to be symbolic, like the other instance where those arrayed in white robes had washed them in the blood of the lamb. Lots of symbolic language in Revelation.
Click to expand...
The physical resurrection of our bodies awaits for the Second Coming Event, as that is when the dead in Christ will be raised up.
 
RJ

I would suggest Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). By having our "part" in Him through salvation we become part of that great spiritual harvest. Through physical resurrection we become part of that great physical harvest. Both the first and second resurrections are totally connected. Because Christ conquered the grave physically so we will conquer the grave if we have our "part" or portion "in Christ" through salvation. The key is that we initially experience our part in that glorious first resurrection "by faith" and therefore experience both resurrections.
 
Ben Zartman said:
Job is speaking of a bodily resurrection at the last day--when his Redeemer shall stand upon the earth. That's Judgment Day: the day when all bodies shall leave their graves, rather than the first resurrection when God quickens a sinner. The Matthew 27:52 incident was not a first resurrection, it was a miraculous manifestation like Lazarus' raising, locally and not since repeated. It cannot be termed the "first resurrection."
As for having bodies in heaven, we are told that at death we join the "Spirits of just men made perfect" I take that to mean that body and soul are separated as we await the resurrection of the last day when the body we live in now (see Job) will be raised by God's power and joined to our spirits.
The white robes in Revelation 6 I take to be symbolic, like the other instance where those arrayed in white robes had washed them in the blood of the lamb. Lots of symbolic language in Revelation.
Click to expand...

I probably quoted the wrong verse.
 
Dachaser said:
The physical resurrection of our bodies awaits for the Second Coming Event, as that is when the dead in Christ will be raised up.
Click to expand...
David, it seems you keep wanting to import Dispensational thought into this thread, which is a discussion on amillennial thought. While the dead in Christ will surely be raised at the second coming, so also will ALL the dead on that same day. If you want to discuss premillennial theories, please start a thread on them--I'd be very happy to talk about that stuff with you in another thread. But it will be most uncharitable to the OP to hijack this thread which might otherwise lead to much fruitful discussion to which I'm looking forward.
 
Jerusalem Blade said:
Thanks, Robert, for the quotes!

RJ, I also hold to regeneration as the 1st resurrection (a proof text I like is, Eph 2:5, 6, speaking of God, who "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus").
Click to expand...

As I recall, I believe I thought salvation was the first resurrection even before I was Reformed. And that was a long time ago.

I can't remember for sure who said this, but I think it was Gary North. He said that the most significant qualitative change that we will ever undergo has already happened to us as believers in our first resurrection — I.E., Our conversion to Christ.

I have thought of this many times and believe that this statement is true.
 
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