Accurately understanding "Reformed continuationism"

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I don’t think the verse is speaking to whether or not, or how long, any of these gifts will continue of use in the church.

He is saying I don't want you to lack in any gift until Jesus returns. Let's say that one of the Corinthians lived to 97 A.D., after Revelation was finished. Would his gift suddenly cease?
 
Jacob- “if God reveals to me that I need to...” you keep introducing hypotheticals like this.

This happens on the mission field on a routine basis. It's not hypothetical. But even if it were it wouldn't be a problem, since hypotheticals is how we flesh out a position.
Does Scripture say these gifts (I suppose you would label this one a word of knowledge or prophecy?) were for the edification of the church, for the building up of the saints, or were they for private situations like this theoretical situation?

My praying for a missionary builds up the church.
 
We are agreeing that the Spirit does indeed bring people to our minds for prayer. I don't consider this private revelation.

And I would agree. And I think many continuationists would as well. The problem is that "revelation" is such a loaded term. But in any case the Spirit is imparting knowledge to you that is not found in the closed canon.
 
David, I reject any claim to modern day prophecy. If you heard someone prophecy, what verses of the bible would you use to substantiate it? How would you check the "credentials" of both the prophet and the one discerning the prophecy?
I also reject any modern Apostles/Prophets, but many are claiming to be speaking for God today, and their message must always be lined up against the scriptures.
 
I do not say there are apostles today. I am pushing back on some cessationist arguments concerning prophets. I am trying to do everyone a favor. Many Reformed and Macarthurite folks are used to arguing against the Benny Hinns of the world. But if they debated someone like Keener or Michael Brown or Steve Hays, it would be a very differerent story.
You would then say modern Day prophets in the Church, with infallible revelations from the Lord?
 
That is not though what modern Charismatics are claiming, as they indeed do see God giving forth doctrines and theology from so called Apostles and Prophets today.
 
He is saying I don't want you to lack in any gift until Jesus returns. Let's say that one of the Corinthians lived to 97 A.D., after Revelation was finished. Would his gift suddenly cease?

Again, I disagree that the verse must of necessity be saying that, and still think Paul is saying two things- that through God’s grace they do not come short in any gift, and that in this state they are eagerly awaiting the Lord’s return. So I guess we both have simply an opinion. But perhaps someone on the board who knows Greek can offer something.

No, I think the necessity of the extraordinary gifts faded away, maybe with the end of that generation.


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Again, I disagree that the verse must of necessity be saying that, and still think Paul is saying two things- that through God’s grace they do not come short in any gift, and that in this state they are eagerly awaiting the Lord’s return. So I guess we both have simply an opinion. But perhaps someone on the board who knows Greek can offer something.

No, I think the necessity of the extraordinary gifts faded away, maybe with the end of that generation.


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They faded away due to them having accomplished what God intended for them to do when he had them in operation in the Church.
 
And I would agree. And I think many continuationists would as well. The problem is that "revelation" is such a loaded term. But in any case the Spirit is imparting knowledge to you that is not found in the closed canon.

I think the way a cessationist would frame it wouldn’t be that God is imparting knowledge, but simply that he brings someone to mind; but it’s his providence, and how God works in these ways is every bit as wonderful as the extraordinary workings in the times of the apostles. He causes all things to work together for the good...


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What is the criteria for apostolic validation of prophets?

The command for validation is in 1 Corinthians 14:29-32, "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets."

As to what specific criteria they used in the moment? I don't know. We can infer from other passages that the apostolic testimony and authority was one criteria (1 Cor 14:37-38, Gal 1:8). The OT Scriptures were another standard at hand (2 Tim 3:16). But "the ability to distinguish between spirits" (1 Cor 12:10) was also a gift listed with the other revelatory gifts. It seems to me at least, that the prophets were exercising that gift as they would "weigh what is said".

The important point though is that it was "prophets" who did this work during the worship service. In order for prophets to continue today, you must have some sort of prophetic succession in place to validate the new prophets and prophecies which emerged for the last 2000 years. And we are not given any instructions about such a succession. The prophets are called "the foundation" of the church with the apostles and Christ. They are linked together (as noted previously). But we are not told to look for anymore after this period. We are only told to look for elders and deacons.

We have a burst of revelatory gifts and offices after Pentecost, but no criteria or instructions on how to maintain them once the apostles have died, or how to revive them if these offices have disappeared.

As I said earlier, either we have been living in perpetual disobedience for the last 1900 years, or some of these offices and gifts were only designed to be transitional during the time of the apostles.
 
I think the way a cessationist would frame it wouldn’t be that God is imparting knowledge, but simply that he brings someone to mind; but it’s his providence, and how God works in these ways is every bit as wonderful as the extraordinary workings in the times of the apostles. He causes all things to work together for the good...
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Well said, Jeri. I believe that since, the effectual prayer of a righteous man availeth much, James 5:16, that the author of this prayer is the Holy Spirit himself. If so, when someone is brought to our mind/heart, it is the work of the Spirit, per Scripture. I am humbled by this every day.
 
The command for validation is in 1 Corinthians 14:29-32, "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets."

As to what specific criteria they used in the moment? I don't know. We can infer from other passages that the apostolic testimony and authority was one criteria (1 Cor 14:37-38, Gal 1:8). The OT Scriptures were another standard at hand (2 Tim 3:16). But "the ability to distinguish between spirits" (1 Cor 12:10) was also a gift listed with the other revelatory gifts. It seems to me at least, that the prophets were exercising that gift as they would "weigh what is said".

The important point though is that it was "prophets" who did this work during the worship service. In order for prophets to continue today, you must have some sort of prophetic succession in place to validate the new prophets and prophecies which emerged for the last 2000 years.

Your first two paragraphs are great. I agree with them 100%. Your third paragraph doesn't follow, though. And I dont' see Paul's command to a community of prophets, for in the verse he says (to the whole church),

***For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets."***
 
I think the way a cessationist would frame it wouldn’t be that God is imparting knowledge, but simply that he brings someone to mind; but it’s his providence, and how God works in these ways is every bit as wonderful as the extraordinary workings in the times of the apostles. He causes all things to work together for the good...


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His bringing it to mind gives you knowledge of a new situation.
 
Your first two paragraphs are great. I agree with them 100%. Your third paragraph doesn't follow, though. And I dont' see Paul's command to a community of prophets, for in the verse he says (to the whole church),

***For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets."***

With Paul, “all” so often doesn’t mean everyone. It’s all of a certain group. In this case, all the prophets. “Do all (everyone in the church) prophesy?” (No.)


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With Paul, “all” so often doesn’t mean everyone. It’s all of a certain group. In this case, all the prophets. “Do all (everyone in the church) prophesy?” (No.)


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I don't see the evidence for its being a sub-group of officers, which makes sense, since Phillip's daughters were prophets but we don't want to grant them official authority in the church.
 
I want to thank everyone for their back and forth. I doubt I will be able to keep up much more on this particular thread. I have several biblical languages projects I am working on right now (Lord willing, I will post a review on one tomorrow).
 
I want to thank everyone for their back and forth. I doubt I will be able to keep up much more on this particular thread. I have several biblical languages projects I am working on right now (Lord willing, I will post a review on one tomorrow).

Yes I agree that we have taken this as far as we can possibly go. As for myself, I am currently in a hospital room recovering from surgery, so I lack the energy to continue anyway. It has been fun though.
 
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