A Thousand Years

[Turtle]

And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many. Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. Mk 14:24, Mt 26:29

Has He already?

 

[Manuel]

It seems the Day of the Lord mentioned in 2 Ptr 3:10 would be synonymous with the Day of the Lord in Zch 14. In Zch 14:4 His feet are standing on the Mount of Olives, from where He departed and will return in like manner. Zch 14 begins with "behold the Day of the Lord commeth," and is followed by at least 7 more "in that day" modifiers to all the events occurring in that day.

The Day of the Lord is an event of judgment and punishment and destruction, the Lord will come and will destroy the wicked ones and "and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." then the living and the dead will be judged, and after the judgment there will be a New Heaven and a New earth.

2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!
2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Nowhere in the Scriptures we are told that the Day of the Lord will last 1000 years, When Peter said that with the Lord a day is as 1000 years and 1000 as one day what he meant is that the Lord doesn't measure time like we do, he didn't mean that the Day of the Lord will last 1000 years, that's not in the text.

I can't take the passage of the thousand years in Revelation 20 and say that, since for the Lord on day is as 1000 years, that Satan is going to be bound for 24 hours only and the second resurrections in going to be 24 hours after the first because a thousand years = one day, that wouldn't be a good exegesis would it?

 

[Wannabee]

Manuel,

I think it would be a possible inference (plausibility), but not necessarily good exegesis. My question in response would be, "How do you deal with the fact that "thousand years" in Rev. 20 has an article before it?" Not every time, but it happens and needs to be dealt with exegetically. As I referenced earlier, this lends precision in the Greek and should be dealt with by any who deny the possibility of a literal millennium.

Of course, this gives us a challenge in regard to "the day of the Lord" as well, for it has the article. Perhaps a list of where "the day of the Lord" is used in Scripture will help. Even a cursory look through these reveals we're not talking about one specific day. It also should be noted that "the day of the Lord" appears to be idiomatic. If such is the case, then attempting to relate this directly to a literal day may be futile. From a premil perspective, "the day of the Lord" may refer to both Jesus' return prior to the millennium and His day of judgment at the end of the millennium, depending upon context.

"For the day of the Lord of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up— And it shall be brought low—" (Isaiah 2:12, NKJV)

"Wail, for the day of the Lord is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty." (Isaiah 13:6, NKJV)

"Behold, the day of the Lord comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it." (Isaiah 13:9, NKJV)

"For it is the day of the Lord’s vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion." (Isaiah 34:8, NKJV)

"“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words," (Isaiah 58:13, NKJV)

"For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, A day of vengeance, That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries. The sword shall devour; It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood; For the Lord God of hosts has a sacrifice In the north country by the River Euphrates." (Jeremiah 46:10, NKJV)

"“You have invited as to a feast day The terrors that surround me. In the day of the Lord’s anger There was no refugee or survivor. Those whom I have borne and brought up My enemies have destroyed.”" (Lamentations 2:22, NKJV)

"You have not gone up into the gaps to build a wall for the house of Israel to stand in battle on the day of the Lord." (Ezekiel 13:5, NKJV)

"For the day is near, Even the day of the Lord is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles." (Ezekiel 30:3, NKJV)

"Alas for the day! For the day of the Lord is at hand; It shall come as destruction from the Almighty." (Joel 1:15, NKJV)

" Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the Lord is coming, For it is at hand:" (Joel 2:1, NKJV)

"The Lord gives voice before His army, For His camp is very great; For strong is the One who executes His word. For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; Who can endure it?" (Joel 2:11, NKJV)

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord." (Joel 2:31, NKJV)

"Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision." (Joel 3:14, NKJV)

"Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! For what good is the day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness, and not light." (Amos 5:18, NKJV)

"Is not the day of the Lord darkness, and not light? Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it?" (Amos 5:20, NKJV)

"“For the day of the Lord upon all the nations is near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head." (Obadiah 15, NKJV)

"Be silent in the presence of the Lord God; For the day of the Lord is at hand, For the Lord has prepared a sacrifice; He has invited His guests." (Zephaniah 1:7, NKJV)

"“And it shall be, In the day of the Lord’s sacrifice, That I will punish the princes and the king’s children, And all such as are clothed with foreign apparel." (Zephaniah 1:8, NKJV)

"The great day of the Lord is near; It is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the Lord is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out." (Zephaniah 1:14, NKJV)

"Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the Lord’s wrath; But the whole land shall be devoured By the fire of His jealousy, For He will make speedy riddance Of all those who dwell in the land." (Zephaniah 1:18, NKJV)

"Before the decree is issued, Or the day passes like chaff, Before the Lord’s fierce anger comes upon you, Before the day of the Lord’s anger comes upon you!" (Zephaniah 2:2, NKJV)

"Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the Lord’s anger." (Zephaniah 2:3, NKJV)

" Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst." (Zechariah 14:1, NKJV)

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." (Malachi 4:5, NKJV)

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord." (Acts 2:20, NKJV)

"deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5, NKJV)

"(as also you have understood us in part), that we are your boast as you also are ours, in the day of the Lord Jesus." (2 Corinthians 1:14, NKJV)

"For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night." (1 Thessalonians 5:2, NKJV)

" But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up." (2 Peter 3:10, NKJV)​

 

[Turtle]

...

Of course, this gives us a challenge in regard to "the day of the Lord" as well, for it has the article. ...

Does "that" in "that day" cause the same issue?

"that day" follows "Day of the Lord" many times and often has obvious association to the Lord's return, even when not co-located with "the Day of the Lord." (Just one example, 2 Tim 4:8 "in that day...who love His appearing.")

 

[Wannabee]

...

Of course, this gives us a challenge in regard to "the day of the Lord" as well, for it has the article. ...

Does "that" in "that day" cause the same issue?

"that day" follows "Day of the Lord" many times and often has obvious association to the Lord's return, even when not co-located with "the Day of the Lord." (Just one example, 2 Tim 4:8 "in that day...who love His appearing.")

Yes, I would say so. There are other ways for a noun to be articular in Greek, mostly involving specificity. Great observation.

 

[Wannabee]

Still, we run into the issue of idiomatic language. "The day of the Lord" appears to be idiomatic, referring to time periods in which God works in a specific way, often involving His wrath. As we've seen in Scripture, it cannot refer to one single day in history. Some "days" of the Lord have passed. Others are yet to come. With this in mind, is it necessary for "the" or "that" day of the Lord to limited to a day? Idiomatic language changes how we approach it.

With this in mind, is there anything in Revelation 20 to give us the idea that "the thousand years" is idiomatic. Since it's the only place where such language is used, I don't see how we could draw this conclusion. Of course, that has much to do with why I'm premil.

 

[Manuel]

My question in response would be, "How do you deal with the fact that "thousand years" in Rev. 20 has an article before it?" Not every time, but it happens and needs to be dealt with exegetically. As I referenced earlier, this lends precision in the Greek and should be dealt with by any who deny the possibility of a literal millennium.

Thanks for the question, Wannabee, it allows me to get away from the 1000 years = 1 day issue, I've repeated myself too much and I don't think we are going anywhere there

Regarding the definite article before thousand years in Rev 20, I just see it as a reference to a previously mentioned period of a thousand years and I don't think it has any affect on whether it should be interpreted as literal or symbolic. In other words, when John wrote:

Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

"THE thousand years" means "the same thousand years just mentioned" (in v.2), so whether he meant this to be understood literally or figuratively the definite article would be there. Notice that the definite article is always used following the expression with an indefinite article. The phrase "the thousand years" in verses 3,5,and 7 is a reference to the same "a thousand years" that appear in verses 2, 4 and 6.

-----Added 4/9/2009 at 06:26:24 EST-----

With this in mind, is there anything in Revelation 20 to give us the idea that "the thousand years" is idiomatic. Since it's the only place where such language is used, I don't see how we could draw this conclusion. Of course, that has much to do with why I'm premil.

The reasons why I moved away from premillennialism have to do with the inconsistencies found with a "literal" interpretation or Rev. 20 with the rest of the eschatological teachings found in the New Testament. When I started studying eschatology more in-depth I found that a postmil or amil position is more consistent with the general teaching of the Bible and the book of Revelation. I also found out that many of the things that I was taught about the millennium in Rev 20 were assumptions and are not in the text.

 

[Bern]

Andrew, the way I understand it, most in the premil camp would totally agree that Christ is reigning in heaven. But the 1000 years refers to a time where Christ will physically be present and reigning on the earth, as opposed to in heaven, if that makes sense.

 

[Peairtach]

If there's still evil and imperfection on the Earth during the premil millennium, this means that Christ has to re-enter His state of humiliation to some extent.

If people can't believe on Christ after He's come to live in Jerusalem, that means that nothing is achieved.

If it is the case that Jesus has more power in His present position at the right hand of the Father (e.g. John 14;28) than He did while on Earth what is the purpose of a reign from Jerusalem?

If it is the case that the Holy Spirit has been poured out and can convert as many as the Son has died for, fewer in one generation or more in another, what is to be achieved by the premillenium?

If Jesus is currently our Great High Priest in the holiest place of all in a temple made without hands, what need have we of a temple made with hands?