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Why would you want to? What is the context?
I was reading Calvin's commentary on Malachi 1
Don't know. That the Bible says God "hated Esau" seems to imply it. I suppose an argument could be made that God's hatred of Esau is in regard to Esau not being chosen as the head of God's chosen people, and not necessarily with regard to his salvation, but that seems like it would be a difficult position to hold.Would I be in error to state dogmatically that Esau is in hell?
Why would you want to? What is the context?
It is interesting that God continued to say that he hated Esau after he was dead. I think that answers this question, but it also answers the question to the thread concerning whether God hates ppl in Hell or not. Looks like we have our Scripture saying he does.
It is interesting that God continued to say that he hated Esau after he was dead. I think that answers this question, but it also answers the question to the thread concerning whether God hates ppl in Hell or not. Looks like we have our Scripture saying he does.
Sarah, I don't wish to drag this thread off topic, but all this shows is that you didn't grasp what was being said on the other thread. Nothing put forward there in any way suggested that the reprobate are not under God's judicial wrath and hatred: it was simply pointed out that he is still related to them as Creator, and in that relation he still keeps them in existence - that is a relationship and a preservation which Samuel Rutherford is willing to speak of as one kind of effectual love.
The "Esau I hated" thing only had to do with Esau being subordinated to Jacob in primogeniture. Paul uses the quote in Romans 9 to show Jewish critics that God doesn't elect on the basis of bloodline.
The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,[18] that men, attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.
Would I be in error to state dogmatically that Esau is in hell?
This is an interesting thread, as I was wondering about this a few months ago when going through Genesis! I would question what is meant by "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated", the way I would ask what was meant when Jesus said "anyone who hates his life will gain it". It seems to me that Esau's mother was saved (correct me if I'm wrong), as I seem to remember her accepting God as her God, but I'm not sure about Esau.. Surely the question does revolve mainly around what was meant by "hate" in this context?
God did not reveal His hatred of Esau in order for us to 'state dogmatically that Esau is in hell.' He did so that each of us might be assured of our eternal election.
So in your opinion there is room to think that Esau was just an example that may have not been real?
It is interesting that God continued to say that he hated Esau after he was dead. I think that answers this question, but it also answers the question to the thread concerning whether God hates ppl in Hell or not. Looks like we have our Scripture saying he does.
Sarah, I don't wish to drag this thread off topic, but all this shows is that you didn't grasp what was being said on the other thread. Nothing put forward there in any way suggested that the reprobate are not under God's judicial wrath and hatred: it was simply pointed out that he is still related to them as Creator, and in that relation he still keeps them in existence - that is a relationship and a preservation which Samuel Rutherford is willing to speak of as one kind of effectual love.
That's a metaphysical ideology to which you and him and some others hold that I don't and we'll have to agree to disagree. I based my ideology on the fact that God can and does give and/or withdraw many of his attributes to his creatures which doesn't make him a changeable God just makes him sovereign in doing as he pleases. If he can withdraw grace and kindness etc from a person in hell and that doesn't make him changeable, then withdrawing his love from that same person doesn't make him changeable either.
So in your opinion there is room to think that Esau was just an example that may have not been real?
I have no idea what this means.
I said "God did not reveal His hatred of Esau in order for us to state dogmatically that Esau is in hell." There is a difference between 'thinking' that Esau is in hell and 'stating dogmatically' that Esau is in hell. A dogmatic statement is one where no difference of opinion is allowed. As someone said earlier, the best that you can do is infer that Esau is in hell. But, beyond that, the point of the revelation is not so that we can judge Esau, but that we might judge our own election.