Jesus Hates Religion

[JS116]

Take a minute to check out this short 4 minute video that was taken yesterday of a spoken word poet speaking about religion and Jesus,it's the buzz on the social networks.

***Watch BEFORE you comment***

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus || Spoken Word - YouTube

I believe the guy has alot of good points but needs to be corrected on a couple things,but I'll wait to you guys watch and then i'll respond...

 

[Andres]

I guess we’d have to define “religion” first.

 

[Beoga]

My comment, after watching, via the social networks:

"Religion says do, Jesus says done. Except Jesus said do:
"If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love," John 15:10
"If you love me, you will obey my commands." John 14:15"

That being said, the video wasn't as bad as I was anticipating, though I don't know what that says.

 

[Pilgrim's Progeny]

I guess we’d have to define “religion” first.

This man seems to define "religion" as a cover up to conceal the true character of those who live this "religion"

"Religion" as I see it defined in this video is synonymous with hypocrisy.

So, Yes, Jesus hates "religion".

True religion =

Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
James 1:27 (NASB)

With this right understanding, Jesus loves "religion".

True religion as I understand it is not me commending myself to God and man, but my reasonable act of service to God and man in the sight of a God who is pleased with me because I am the fruit of the travail of His son.

The problem with "religion" is that is so often misunderstood, it is just too ambiguous I think and therefore I believe the speaker may be doing faithful adherents to "true religion" more harm than good.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Jesus came to abolish religion? This poor soul needs to square up his terminology on a few different levels. To start with he needs to know what religion is and what it isn't. I suspect he might have many other issues also. This young man seems to not understand that there is true religion in comparison to false religion. Only a novice would say that Christianity isn't a religion. There are many religious beliefs and religions. This pompous kid wants to start his own epistemological reference point. He is the definer of what is and isn't. Wow, that must be pretty cool. I guess he is on the level of God in giving words their meaning now. Jesus came to save and seek. That is true. He didn't come to abolish religion. He came to establish His Kingdom and reconcile us to God so that we could perform our duty to God and be righteous.

(Jas 1:26) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.


(Jas 1:27) Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

It is fine if this young man wants to confront hypocrisy. I have no problem with that. The book of James does this also.

By the way this young man talks, we should probably relegate the word faith to obscurity also. There is true faith and false faith. Christianity is a religion of faith in Christ. If you were to tell an atheist that Christianity wasn't a world religion you would be laughed at. The word religion is not a bad word as this person is making it out to be. This kind of stuff just makes me sick and makes Christians look mindless. I use to hear this tripe from people who mostly despised authority but wanted to claim Christ. Jesus and me stuff. He says that he loves the Church. But which Church does he love? What does he mean by Church? What is his reference point for defining that? Maybe I should rely upon him for a definition of Faith and Church also?

Am I getting my point across?

 

[Pilgrim's Progeny]

Jesus came to abolish religion? This poor soul needs to square up his terminology on a few different levels. To start with he needs to know what religion is and what it isn't. I suspect he might have many other issues also. This young man seems to not understand that there is true religion in comparison to false religion. Only a novice would say that Christianity isn't a religion. There are many religious beliefs and religions. This pompous kid wants to start his own epistemological reference point. He is the definer of what is and isn't. Wow, that must be pretty cool. I guess he is on the level of God in giving words their meaning now.

I had a burst of anger that raised up in my breast as I watched the video as well.

The sad thing is that you this "pompous" rhetoric is all too common.

It sort of reminds me me of the following parable

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 18:9-14 (KJV)

You know, a possible third man at the temple saying, "Thank you, I am not like the Pharisees . . ."

 

[steadfast7]

The institutional church is by no means perfect. Lots of terrible things happening and lots of people getting hurt - what else do you expect from an organization made up of sinners? However, once this guy condemns and separates himself from institutional religion, I'd be curious to know where he plans on going.

"He does not call God his Father, who does not call the Church his mother." - St. Cyprian.

 

[AThornquist]

It's unfortunate that this trendy, non-traditional definition of 'religion' detracts from what is ultimately being meant. He is a talented brother who made this video with good intentions, but the truth he means to convey suffers from inaccuracies.

 

[steadfast7]

On a positive note, though, I was alerted to this video from a coworker, who is an unbeliever. The video went viral on her facebook feeds, so it's a good opener to religious conversation. Praise God.

 

[kvanlaan]

This is a very popular concept these days:

» Home THE END OF RELIGION: ENCOUNTERING THE SUBVERSIVE SPIRITUALITY OF Jesus

 

[Semper Fidelis]

False religion is the invention of idolatrous mind and, in his condemnation of some forms of idolatry, he has created his own. He makes statements throughout about how men ought to be treating neighbor and worshipping Christ and so makes statements about what is proper religion.

He seems like a nice young man who is earnestly seeking the Truth but he needs some better mentors. Part of denying self is dealing with the realities of any group when sinners saved by grace start congregating. It's tempting to say that their problem is X but selflessness demands a religion that is not schismatic.

 

[Rufus]

Didn't the revivalists of the 1910's-20's speak of getting back to "Old Time Religion"? Also didn't "having religion" mean something particularly years ago? (Both rhetorical questions)

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

By the way this young man talks, we should probably relegate the word faith to obscurity also. There is true faith and false faith. Christianity is a religion of faith in Christ. If you were to tell an atheist that Christianity wasn't a world religion you would be laughed at. The word religion is not a bad word as this person is making it out to be. This kind of stuff just makes me sick and makes Christians look mindless. I use to hear this tripe from people who mostly despised authority but wanted to claim Christ. Jesus and me stuff. He says that he loves the Church. But which Church does he love? What does he mean by Church? What is his reference point for defining that? Maybe I should rely upon him for a definition of Faith and Church also?

Stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really feel, brother.

I agree with you. I frequently run into the "Jesus hates religion" bit when encountering vitriolic open theists and anti-Calvinists who are quick to conclude anything but what they believe is "man made" or "philosophical". It is a well-worn canard that needs to be denounced.

AMR

 

[Christusregnat]

Nor can that practice be right and saving which is not directed by knowledge (Jn. 17:3). Hence Lactantius says, 'Religion should not be received without wisdom, nor is wisdom without religion to be approved' (Lactantius, Divine Institutes 1.1 [FC 49:20; PL 6.119]; and 'all the wisdom of man is in this one thing, that he may know and worship God' (ibid., 3.30* [FC 49:243; PL 6.444]); and 'religion cannot be separated from wisdom nor wisdom from religion because it is the same God who ought both to be known (which is wisdom) and to be worshipped (which is religion); but wisdom precedes and religion follows because we must first know God in order to worship him. So in the two words there is the same force, although they may seem to be different; for the one is placed in the sense, the other in acts, yet they are like two streams flowing from one fountain' (ibid., 4.4 [FC 49:251-52; PL 6.456-57]). (5) The end is the happiness of man which consists partly in the vision and partly in the fruition of God, from each of which arises assimilation to him (Jn. 13:17).

Francis Turretin, Institutes, 1:21.


I think Turretin and Lactantius are on the right track here.

 

[JimmyH]

Since all true believers are, whether they know it or not, part of the body of Christ, it seems to me that if he really is of the elect, he is misguided. OTOH, I wonder if his passive/aggressive video isn't just self promotion. He begins with some very controversial statements which would make the viewer think he is an atheist and then goes on to proclaim his faith in Jesus Christ. His alleged faith is belied by his lumping all of the body of Christ into "religion" rather than specifying exactly which spoke of the wheel he is referring to. Just my take on it.

 

[Philip]

Can I get someone to define "religion" here, in the old sense?

 

[Christusregnat]

Turretin's citation of Lactantius seems to be on point for defining religion.

 

[gordo]

Jesus came to abolish religion? This poor soul needs to square up his terminology on a few different levels. To start with he needs to know what religion is and what it isn't. I suspect he might have many other issues also. This young man seems to not understand that there is true religion in comparison to false religion. Only a novice would say that Christianity isn't a religion. There are many religious beliefs and religions. This pompous kid wants to start his own epistemological reference point. He is the definer of what is and isn't. Wow, that must be pretty cool. I guess he is on the level of God in giving words their meaning now. Jesus came to save and seek. That is true. He didn't come to abolish religion. He came to establish His Kingdom and reconcile us to God so that we could perform our duty to God and be righteous.

(Jas 1:26) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.


(Jas 1:27) Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

It is fine if this young man wants to confront hypocrisy. I have no problem with that. The book of James does this also.

By the way this young man talks, we should probably relegate the word faith to obscurity also. There is true faith and false faith. Christianity is a religion of faith in Christ. If you were to tell an atheist that Christianity wasn't a world religion you would be laughed at. The word religion is not a bad word as this person is making it out to be. This kind of stuff just makes me sick and makes Christians look mindless. I use to hear this tripe from people who mostly despised authority but wanted to claim Christ. Jesus and me stuff. He says that he loves the Church. But which Church does he love? What does he mean by Church? What is his reference point for defining that? Maybe I should rely upon him for a definition of Faith and Church also?

Am I getting my point across?

Great post!

 

[JS116]

I think Louis Berkhof summarized religion in the best way here in the Introductory chapter of his book A Summery of Christian Doctrine

1. The Nature of Religion

The Bible informs us that man was created in the image of God. When he fell in sin, he did not entirely cease to be the image-bearer of the Most High. The seed of religion is still present in all men, though their sinful nature constantly reacts against it. Missionaries testify to the presence of religion in some form or other among all the nations and tribes of the earth. It is one of the greatest blessings of mankind, though many denounce it as a curse. Not only does it touch the deepest springs of man's life, but it also controls his thoughts and feelings and desires.

But just what is religion? It is only by the study of the Word of God that we can learn to know the nature of true religion. The word 'religion' is derived from the Latin and not from any word that is found in the original Hebrew or Greek of the Bible. It is found only four times in our translation of the Bible, Gal. 1:18, 14; Jas. 1:26, 27. The Old Testament defines religion as the fear of the Lord. This fear is not a feeling of dread, but of reverent regard for God akin to awe, but coupled with love and confidence. It is the response of the Old Testament believers to the revelation of the law. In the New Testament religion is a response to the gospel rather than to the law, and assumes the form of faith and godliness.

In the light of Scripture we learn to understand that religion is a relation in which man stands to God, a relation in which man is conscious of the absolute majesty and infinite power of God and "8" of his own utter insignificance and absolute helplessness. It may be defined as a conscious and voluntary relationship to God, which expresses itself in grateful worship and loving service. The manner of this religious worship and service is not left to the arbitrary will of man, but is determined by God.

2. The Seat of Religion.

There are several wrong views respecting the seat of religion in man. Some think of religion primarily as a sort of knowledge, and locate it in the intellect. Others regard it as a kind of immediate feeling of God, and find its seat in the feelings. And still others hold that it consists most of all in moral activity, and refer it to the will. However, all these views are one-sided and contrary to Scripture, which teaches us that religion is a matter of the heart. In Scripture psychology the heart is the central organ of the soul. Out of it are all the issues of life, thoughts, feelings, and desires, Prov. 4:28. Religion involves the whole man, his intellectual, his emotional, and his moral life. This is the only view that does justice to the nature of religion.

3. The Origin of Religion.

Particular attention was devoted during the last fifty years to the problem of the origin of religion. Repeated attempts were made to give a natural explanation of it, but without success. Some spoke of it as an invention of cunning and deceptive priests, who regarded it as an easy source of revenue; but this explanation is entirely discredited now. Others held that it began with the worship of lifeless objects (fetishes), or with the worship of spirits, possibly the spirits of forefathers. But this is no explanation, since the question remains, How did people ever hit upon the idea of worshipping lifeless or living objects? Still others were of the opinion that religion originated in nature-worship, that is, the worship of the marvels and powers of nature, or in the widespread practice of magic. But these theories do not explain any more than the others how non-religious man ever became religious. They all start out with a man who is already religious.

The Bible gives the only reliable account of the origin of religion. It informs us of the existence of God, the only object worthy of religious worship. Moreover, it comes to us with the assurance that God, whom man could never discover with his natural powers, revealed Himself in nature and, more especially, in His divine Word, demands the worship and service of man, and also determines the worship and service that is well-pleasing to Him. And, finally, it teaches us that God created man in His own image, and thus endowed him with a capacity to understand, and to respond to, this revelation, and engendered in him a natural urge to seek communion with God and to glorify Him.

To memorize Scripture passages bearing on:

a. The Nature of Religion:

Deut. 10:12, 18. "And now, Israel, what doth Jehovah thy God require of thee, but to fear Jehovah thy God, to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve Jehovah thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, to keep the commandments of Jehovah, and His statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good."

Ps. 111:10. "The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all they that do His commandments: His praise endureth for ever."

Eccl. 12:13. "Fear God and keep His commandments; for this is the whole duty of man."

John 6:29. "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent."

Acts 16:31. "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house."

b. The Seat of Religion.

Ps. 51:10. "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." Also vs. 17. "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

Prov. 4:23. "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life."

Matt. 6:8. "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

c. The Origin of Religion.

Gen. 1:27. "And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him."

Deut. 4:13. "And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments."

Ezek. 36:26. "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh."

For Further Study of Scripture.

a. What elements of true religion are indicated in the following passages:

Deut. 10:12; "And now, Israel, what doth Jehovah thy God require of thee, but to fear Jehovah thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve Jehovah thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, (Deuteronomy 10:12)"

Eccl. 12:13; " [This is] the end of the matter; all hath been heard: fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole [duty] of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)"

Hos. 6:6; "For I desire goodness, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt-offerings. (Hosea 6:6)"

Micah 6:8; "He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth Jehovah require of thee, but to do justly, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with thy God? (Micah 6:8)"

Mark 12:33; "and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is much more than all whole burnt-offerings and sacrifices. (Mark 12:33)"

John 3:36; 6:29; "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29)"

Acts 6:3; " Look ye out therefore, brethren, from among you seven men of good report, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. (Acts 6:3)"

Rom. 12:1; " I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your spiritual service. (Romans 12:1)" 13:10; " Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. (Romans 13:10)"

Jas. 1:27. " Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep oneself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)"

b. What forms of false religion are indicated in the following passages:

Ps. 78:35, 36; "35 And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their redeemer. 36 But they flattered him with their mouth, And lied unto him with their tongue. (Psalms 78:35-36)"

Isa. 1:11-17; "11 What unto me is the multitude of your sacrifices? saith Jehovah: I have had enough of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample my courts? 13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; new moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies,-- I cannot away with iniquity and the solemn meeting. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth; they are a trouble unto me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. (Isaiah 1:11-17)"

58:1-5; "1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and declare unto my people their transgression, and to the house of Jacob their sins. 2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways: as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God, they ask of me righteous judgments; they delight to draw near unto God. 3 Wherefore have we fasted, [say they], and thou seest not? [wherefore] have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find [your own] pleasure, and exact all your labors. 4 Behold, ye fast for strife and contention, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye fast not this day so as to make your voice to be heard on high. 5 Is such the fast that I have chosen? the day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head as a rush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to Jehovah? (Isaiah 58:1-5)"

Ezek. 33:31, 32; "31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but do them not; for with their mouth they show much love, but their heart goeth after their gain. 32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument; for they hear thy words, but they do them not. (Ezekiel 33:31-32)"

Matt. 6:2, 5; " When therefore thou doest alms, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward. (Matthew 6:2) And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward. (Matthew 6:5)"

7:21, 26, 27; "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21) 26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: 27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof. (Matthew 7:26-27)"

23:14; " [Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, even while for a pretence ye make long prayers: therefore ye shall receive greater condemnation.] (Matthew 23:14)"

Luke 6:2; " But certain of the Pharisees said, Why do ye that which it is not lawful to do on the sabbath day? (Luke 6:2)"

13:14; " And the ruler of the synagogue, being moved with indignation because Jesus had healed on the sabbath, answered and said to the multitude, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the day of the sabbath. (Luke 13:14)"

Gal. 4:10; " Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years. (Galatians 4:10)"

Col. 2:20; " If ye died with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do ye subject yourselves to ordinances, (Colossians 2:20)"

II Tim. 3:5; " holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. (2 Timothy 3:5)"

Tit. 1:16; " They profess that they know God; but by their works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:16)"

Jas. 2:15, 16; "15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? (James 2:15-16)"

3:10. " out of the same mouth cometh forth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. (James 3:10)"

c. Name six instances of true religion.

Gen. 4:4-8; "4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And Jehovah had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 but unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And Jehovah said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door: and unto thee shall be its desire, but do thou rule over it. 8 And Cain told Abel his brother. And it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. (Genesis 4:4-8)"

12:1-8; "1 Now Jehovah said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee: 2 and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make they name great; and be thou a blessing; 3 and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed. 4 So Abram went, as Jehovah had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran. 5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came. 6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Shechem, unto the oak of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land. 7 And Jehovah appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto Jehovah, who appeared unto him. 8 And he removed from thence unto the mountain on the east of Beth-el, and pitched his tent, having Beth-el on the west, and Ai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto Jehovah, and called upon the name of Jehovah. (Genesis 12:1-8)"

15:17; " And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold, a smoking furnace, and a flaming torch that passed between these pieces. (Genesis 15:17)"

18:22-33; Ex. 3:2-22;

Deut. 32:33; " Their wine is the poison of serpents, And the cruel venom of asps. (Deuteronomy 32:33)"

II Kings 18:3-7; 19:14-19; Dan. 6:4-22; Luke 2:25-35; 2:36, 37; "36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher (she was of a great age, having lived with a husband seven years from her virginity, 37 and she had been a widow even unto fourscore and four years), who departed not from the temple, worshipping with fastings and supplications night and day. (Luke 2:36-37)"

7:1-10;

II Tim. 1:5. " having been reminded of the unfeigned faith that is in thee; which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and, I am persuaded, in thee also. (2 Timothy 1:5)"

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I had a burst of anger that raised up in my breast as I watched the video as well.

The sad thing is that you this "pompous" rhetoric is all too common.

It sort of reminds me me of the following parable
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 18:9-14 (KJV)


You know, a possible third man at the temple saying, "Thank you, I am not like the Pharisees . . ."

Paul, I am not mad at the kid. I have to admit that I find his confusion is rather distasteful and reeks of ignorance. This young man's rhetoric is bombastic and uneducated. Thus the reference to him being pompous. He is standing over the Church proclaiming anathema's but the very foundation he is starting from is so incorrect. He is acting as an authority on the issues he is discussing but his foundation and zealous reaction reminds me of the passage that "he has a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge." He is actually making Christianity look unintelligent. That along with his semi rap attitude and delivery just seems to be a bit overboard. So if you want to accuse me of being the third man in the room saying I am not like this pharisee, I would humbly appreciate you showing me what that really means. As you know I am not above being wrong and I believe you have corrected me before. I am open to correction and repentance when I am wrong.

 

[Jack K]

"Religion" in the new sense (the sense understood by most non-PB folks in Western societies today) means doing your best to follow a set of principles that will win points with God or bring you some spiritual enlightenment. Understood that way—the way most people we know use the word most often today—Jesus is indeed against "religion." And it can be of great help to say this when explaining your faith to people.

When we've had discussions about this here in the past, there've always been many who resist giving in to this definition of "religion." They want to preserve a better one. I can see their point. There've also been some who object to the idea that "Christianity is not religion" on the grounds that it smells antinomian or probably reflects shallow thinking of some sort. No doubt it does for some who use the line.

But the importance of speaking to others about Christ in their language, the way they use it and understand it, should not be undervalued. Likewise, the importance of showing that faith in Christ must never be about winning points with God—that, in fact, it is the very opposite of this—cannot be overstressed. So I'm generally okay with the language that Jesus brought Good News, not "religion." I've used such lines myself (always explaining further what I mean).

That said, the particular example in the link is probably not as well thought out or expressed as it should be.

 

[Philip]

Jack, I think you've hit on the central confusion, which is that "religion" here doesn't necessarily mean what the Bible means when it uses the word. The ordinary use of the word has become exactly that which Christianity stands opposed to: works done to win points with God.

 

[JS116]

I really wasnt too upset about this video until this morning,then I saw the reaction from the people on all the networking sites.This guy really does not see what a mess he has gotten himself and others into...

I praise God for the reformation and it the true reformed churches we have today for being faithful to God and his word standing against postmodernism.

Nonetheless Jack you are right..it's just that this causing the wrong kind of uprising between christians and non christians ,all because he was careless with his words.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

I feel alot better now..I think he goes to Mark Driscolls church,that explains alot.

 

[Pilgrim's Progeny]

I had a burst of anger that raised up in my breast as I watched the video as well.

The sad thing is that you this "pompous" rhetoric is all too common.

It sort of reminds me me of the following parable
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 18:9-14 (KJV)


You know, a possible third man at the temple saying, "Thank you, I am not like the Pharisees . . ."

Paul, I am not mad at the kid. I have to admit that I find his confusion is rather distasteful and reeks of ignorance. This young man's rhetoric is bombastic and uneducated. Thus the reference to him being pompous. He is standing over the Church proclaiming anathema's but the very foundation he is starting from is so incorrect. He is acting as an authority on the issues he is discussing but his foundation and zealous reaction reminds me of the passage that "he has a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge." He is actually making Christianity look unintelligent. That along with his semi rap attitude and delivery just seems to be a bit overboard. So if you want to accuse me of being the third man in the room saying I am not like this pharisee, I would humbly appreciate you showing me what that really means. As you know I am not above being wrong and I believe you have corrected me before. I am open to correction and repentance when I am wrong.

Randy,

I should be corrected by you here!(as I have in times past) I regret that I wrote in such a way as to make you think I was correcting you.

Actually, I was comparing the speaker to a possible third man at the temple.

I think you were pretty "spot on" in your comment.


I hope that clears it up. And, thank you for giving me a chance to make this right, brother.


Now, the anger I spoke of:

a burst of anger that raised up in my breast as I watched the video

This has more to do with my own experience, I can literally taste this rhetoric, as I have used similar. This way of speaking alienates so much of the body of Christ, and does more harm than good. Sadly, I know first hand.

 

[J. Dean]

I watched the video and commented directly on the site, echoing what most of you said: I like the thrust of the video, and the emphasis on grace in particular, but the author needs to be clear about what he means by "religion." If he means hypocrisy or external works righteousness, bravo and kudos to him. If he means churches that don't use services with rock music, emotionalism, or hyped up altar calls, then he's wrong and judgmental.

 

[athanatos]

I was going to post about this myself! Well, he's my video response
[video=youtube;TZpxnT706pc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZpxnT706pc[/video]

 

[JS116]

The guy who made the video I guess is hearing the good and bad effects of his video.Here is what he wrote on Facebook today..

If you are using my video to bash "the church" be careful. I was in no way intending to do that. My heart came from trying to highlight and expose legalism and hypocrisy. The Church is Jesus' bride so be careful how you speak of His wife. If a normal dude has right to get pissed when you bash His wife, it makes me tremble to think how great the weight is when we do it to Jesus' wife. The church is His vehicle to reach a lost word. A hospital for sinners. Saying you love Jesus but hate the Church, is like a fiancé saying he loves his future bride, but hates her kids. We are all under grace. Look to Him.

I must admit,I was going back and forth for a while on how I should respond.Part of me said "He's totally wrong and ignorant about what true and false religion is and is misrepresenting Christianity!" another part or me was saying "I was once there,zealous for Jesus but no self-control with use of my tongue speaking on matters I knew little about about,he's wrong on some points but I can tell he does love God and he is a brother"..God has to work on me just as he has to work on this brother,maybe me even more.

 

[Philip]

My hangup is not with his theology (which is actually very good) but his terminology. Calling the stuff he condemns "religion" is the problem. "Churchianity," "Sola Bootstrapsa," hypocrisy, all of these would be wonderful terms. My objection is not substantive but semantic.

 

[GulfCoast Presbyterian]

Sola Bootstrapa! That's awesome. I am borrowing that one.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

"Religion" in the new sense (the sense understood by most non-PB folks in Western societies today) means doing your best to follow a set of principles that will win points with God or bring you some spiritual enlightenment. Understood that way—the way most people we know use the word most often today—Jesus is indeed against "religion." And it can be of great help to say this when explaining your faith to people.

I think this is what he had his mind on. Plus if you talk to non-christians that is probably how they would define religion. That is how all other "religions" outside of Christianity claim you can be accepted by God. I would say anything posted on YouTube would be for a secular audience. So when you do not define words and phrases you have to use how the world would define it.