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This always bothered me about folks like Dave Hunt and Chuck Smith. I have found arminians, for example, in places like the Church of the Nazarene and the Assemblies of God who, while they strongly disagree with you, will accept you as a brother in Christ, and be very close Christian brothers and sisters. However, these guys are really leaning towards out and out hatred of fellow bretheren in Christ, and all because of an issue upon which our eternal salvation does not depend. Something tells me that maybe there is just a little imbalance here?
God Bless,
Adam
he actually calls Calvinists cultists
he actually calls Calvinists cultists
he actually calls Calvinists cultists
I actual heard something similar this past week about me. They said that the Presbyterians are all a cult, only because I did not want to debate something that was obviously going nowhere and all the comments were ad hominem. Sometimes you need to know when to call it quits with someone. Usually comments like this warrant Proverbs 26:4 "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself."
...it ought encourage you to engage people who think this way. Many of these people are Christians, but woefully, embarrassingly ignorant of God's Word.
I, like every other student in Bible college, wrestled with this issue. I was reading Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God. I got so confused because Pink stats that man has no choice in the issue of salvation. It is all up to God. There's no human responsibility. As I was reading the book, I got so confused that I finally stood up, took the paperback, and threw it across the room. I felt like Martin Luther throwing an ink well at the devil. I said, "God, I can't understand it." I was frustrated mentally. It was then that the Lord spoke to my heart and said, "I didn't ask you to understand it, I only asked you to believe My Word."
I rested from that point on. I still cannot in my mind rationalize the two positions. I can't bring the two together... Chuck Smith; Calvary Distinctives; pg. 125
I am one of those 'converts' Dr. White referred to. I came to the DoG partially because of the encouragement I received from Calvary pastors. As Dr. White mentions, one of the problems they face is an 'archbishop' type of ecclesiology. This ecclesiology is the reason I believe for CC's frustration over 'Reformation Theology', as Smith calls it. Because Smith is frustrated, this frustration trickles down. He grows up other pastors that are frustrated. And they grow up others, etc. Here is a quote from Smith that shows the inner battle that goes on inside his heart:
I, like every other student in Bible college, wrestled with this issue. I was reading Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God. I got so confused because Pink stats that man has no choice in the issue of salvation. It is all up to God. There's no human responsibility. As I was reading the book, I got so confused that I finally stood up, took the paperback, and threw it across the room. I felt like Martin Luther throwing an ink well at the devil. I said, "God, I can't understand it." I was frustrated mentally. It was then that the Lord spoke to my heart and said, "I didn't ask you to understand it, I only asked you to believe My Word."
I rested from that point on. I still cannot in my mind rationalize the two positions. I can't bring the two together... Chuck Smith; Calvary Distinctives; pg. 125
I am thankful for the charity shown me by those at CC and hope that the Lord will soon resolve this issue in his mind.
Chuck Missler is big with CC. He did an article a while back about how amilenialism was responsible for Hitler's holocaust and "replacement theology" (the church fills the promises to Israel) is heresy.
...it ought encourage you to engage people who think this way. Many of these people are Christians, but woefully, embarrassingly ignorant of God's Word.
It does, and if someone has a misunderstanding then I want to go to the Bible with them and show them their error (as I would want someone to do for me).
The thing with Calvary Chapel though (at least the ones I've attended and heard on the radio) is that they are trained to not engage with Calvinist and to just write them off as "Un-Biblical" and "followers of a man".
I know cause I was trained this way. Even in our bookstore we have more "Anti-Calvinist" book than any other subject.
Interesting thing is the majority of people at the church I go to now (which is Calvinistic) started off in Calvary Chapels, and since Calvary Chapels have a high view of verse by verse expository preaching you eventually wind up hitting lots of text that go against your Arminianism
I am one of those 'converts' Dr. White referred to. I came to the DoG partially because of the encouragement I received from Calvary pastors. As Dr. White mentions, one of the problems they face is an 'archbishop' type of ecclesiology. This ecclesiology is the reason I believe for CC's frustration over 'Reformation Theology', as Smith calls it. Because Smith is frustrated, this frustration trickles down. He grows up other pastors that are frustrated. And they grow up others, etc. Here is a quote from Smith that shows the inner battle that goes on inside his heart:
I, like every other student in Bible college, wrestled with this issue. I was reading Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God. I got so confused because Pink stats that man has no choice in the issue of salvation. It is all up to God. There's no human responsibility. As I was reading the book, I got so confused that I finally stood up, took the paperback, and threw it across the room. I felt like Martin Luther throwing an ink well at the devil. I said, "God, I can't understand it." I was frustrated mentally. It was then that the Lord spoke to my heart and said, "I didn't ask you to understand it, I only asked you to believe My Word."
I rested from that point on. I still cannot in my mind rationalize the two positions. I can't bring the two together... Chuck Smith; Calvary Distinctives; pg. 125
I am thankful for the charity shown me by those at CC and hope that the Lord will soon resolve this issue in his mind.
There are Christians within in CC who are very charitable and God fearing. Very thankful for one of my close friends still involved with CC.
I think Pastor Chuck fails to see that God can give us mental and intellectual trials not only physical trials. There have been many times in my life where I've had intellectual trials trying to work through certian biblical doctrines.
-----Added 10/7/2009 at 09:34:14 EST-----
Chuck Missler is big with CC. He did an article a while back about how amilenialism was responsible for Hitler's holocaust and "replacement theology" (the church fills the promises to Israel) is heresy.
Missler is a good example why businessmen should not exegete Scripture without any training. Missler is a big proponent of the Nephilim being the offspring of fallen angles and women.
The problem with the CC boys is a lot of their experience with Calvinists and Reformed doctrine is from the internal "Converts" within CC. Here's the so common scenario, someone in CC stumbles upon the DoG is convinced of God's sovereignty in salvation, realize what they've been taught is all wrong, then go on the war path to correct everyone. As a result their "very zealous for truth", from the CC perspective this is "divisive" because CC paints an underlying attitude of having a monopoly on the truth of the Bible. Obviously they don't. So, to give them the benefit of the doubt most CC pastors and layman are only exposed to the recent converts to Reformed doctrine. Those beloved saints (me included at one time) who are on fire for the truth of God’s Word could be more gracious when dealing with CC people. Don’t get me the leaders should repent and turn from the idol of “Super-Free-Willism” but for reasons I don’t know God has left them in the dark on these issues.
We have a former CC member (many years ago) who attends our church. He used to teach a cults class at CC, but he began to have problems with the dispensationalism taught. He came to Chuck Smith personally with some questions (not outright objections, but simply questions), and was unceremoniously dropped from his teaching duties.
I just listened to this tripe by Chuck Smith. This is worse than I had expected. I knew they were lightweights, but believed they were quiet about the Reformed Christians.
The reason he doesn't entertain questions about Calvinism is that he knows his theological groundings are weak. The explanation he gave for Romans 8:28-30 was absurd.
Since I just finished a 2 month study on Logic with my Theology class, I'm going to play this and dissect the numerous logical fallacies he commits with his comments.