How Much is "Too Much" to Pay a Pastor?

[Marrow Man]

A friend of mine posted the following on his blog. Ben Broxton just received a call to Riverside Church in New York City. Get a load of his compensation for accepting the call:

* $250,000 in salary.
* $11,500 monthly housing allowance ($138K/yr).
* Private school tuition for their children.
* A full-time maid.
* "Entertainment," travel and professional development allowances.
* Pension and life insurance benefits.
* An equity allowance for the future purchase of a home.

And here I thought we were in a tough economy...

Wait a minute -- no health insurance?!? How do they expect him to survive?

 

[Blueridge Believer]

A friend of mine posted the following on his blog. Ben Broxton just received a call to Riverside Church in New York City. Get a load of his compensation for accepting the call:

* $250,000 in salary.
* $11,500 monthly housing allowance ($138K/yr).
* Private school tuition for their children.
* A full-time maid.
* "Entertainment," travel and professional development allowances.
* Pension and life insurance benefits.
* An equity allowance for the future purchase of a home.

And here I thought we were in a tough economy...

Wait a minute -- no health insurance?!? How do they expect him to survive?

Just look at the upcoming speaker:

Dr. Ann Holmes Redding, Preaching

On Sunday, April 19th, Ann Holmes Redding will be our guest preacher in morning worship. Dr. Redding, an Episcopal priest from Seattle, was recently defrocked by the Episcopal Church after announcing in 2007 that she is both Christian and Muslim. Dr. Redding formerly served as the Director of Faith Formation at St. Mark’s Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle.


I really don't think we're talking about a real gospel church here

 

[LawrenceU]

New York City is a very expensive place to live. My bet is that he won't live very high on the hog on that salary. Probably better than many, but not real high.

 

[puritanpilgrim]

* $250,000 in salary.
* $11,500 monthly housing allowance ($138K/yr).
* Private school tuition for their children.
* A full-time maid.
* "Entertainment," travel and professional development allowances.
* Pension and life insurance benefits.
* An equity allowance for the future purchase of a home

what no bonus?

-----Added 4/23/2009 at 12:51:28 EST-----

New York City is a very expensive place to live. My bet is that he won't live very high on the hog on that salary. Probably better than many, but not real high.

It doesn't cost 11,500 a month rent. Average apartment is around 1,500-2,000.

 

[DMcFadden]

Ah yes . . . Riverside . . . home of Fosdick and an unholy alliance between the UCC and the ABC (my old denomination).

 

[LawrenceU]

It doesn't cost 11,500 a month rent. Average apartment is around 1,500-2,000.

Hmmm... missed that.

I'm a little preoccupied right now. One of my customers, a military contractor is missing a VERY expensive spool of com wire. They think it my have ended up in our landfill. This might be 'fun'.

 

[Marrow Man]

I really don't think we're talking about a real gospel church here

What an awfully judgmental thing to say. I should give a mod ding just for that...

J/K, of course. You are right on target. Why in the world would they advertise that their upcoming "speaker" was defrocked?!? It's like putting out a sign that says "Apostates R Us."

They are getting what they paid for. If they have no discernment with the gospel, why should we expect them to have any discernment with their dollars.

 

[Tripel]

I think we all agree that the compensation posted in the OP is excessive.

However I'm curious if you were wanting to discuss the title of the thread in general.

 

[Montanablue]

It doesn't cost 11,500 a month rent. Average apartment is around 1,500-2,000.

Really? I planned to move to Boston or New York last year, and studios in New York were at least 1500 - most more than that. Boston seemed a bit less, but still a one room studio ran about 1200.

250,000/yr for NYC actually doesn't seem excessive to me. The additional housing allowance does seem a bit much though.

 

[Scottish Lass]

Daniel,
Aren't there too many variables? It's sort of like what the judge famously said--I know it when I see it. For example, what Tim was paid in MS wouldn't begin to cut it here w/out me working full-time.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I'm a free market capitalist. I don't think his salary is intrinsically any of our concern. I see some in his congregation are outraged over the amount and have even filed suit! Ok, well, since their tithes are paying his salary they DO have a vested interest in the compensation package (not that they should be suing - they should just leave the church - standard liberal fare: rather than bowing out in protest, they'd try to sue to impose their obviously minority position on the majority).

If his church wants to pay him that much, then fine.


But what I do find ironic - as the blogger does - is the amount of this salary in light of this church's reputation for preaching against the rich, etc. It shows the hypocritical nature of those who buy into the class warfare of the Left.

 

[Marrow Man]

I think we all agree that the compensation posted in the OP is excessive.

However I'm curious if you were wanting to discuss the title of the thread in general.

The title was more of a rhetorical question, but if you would like to go that route, then fire away. No one can accuse of hijacking a thread if the question was asked in the first place!

 

[BJClark]

What is sad is the members are taking this to court, if they disagree with the amount of $'s that has been agreed upon, they can merely leave and take their money else where, I'm sure they could find another group of like minded individuals to gather with on Sunday's or who knows, they may actually find themselves in a church where they actually PREACH the Gospel!!

Many of his parishioners agree that - in light of the former pastor, the eminent preacher Dr. James Forbes - only had around $300K in compensation (and that was after nearly two decades of service). They were so upset that they took their case all the way up to the Manhattan Supreme Court!

 

[Scottish Lass]

Maybe the members who are upset should find a form of church government that allows members to vote on such issues. I can think of a few...

 

[Marrow Man]

Hmmm, I just had a thought. Perhaps the reason there is no health insurance mentioned is because ... he's not going to need it once we all have socialized medicine! Maybe I should just read between the lines here...

 

[EricP]

Pastor salary

To the uninitiated the Riverside offer sounds almost presidential--quarter mill a year, private school, maids; just no Secret Service! If we are approaching an era when churches become fodder for federal "oversight" (stemming no doubt from lawsuits of one type or another), then such salaries are going to cause problems for MANY pastors, I suspect. Perhaps the love, devotion, and care of a dedicated, warm, bible-reading, prayer service attending congregation would substitute? For those of us hoping for calls in the future, where are those congregations, please?

 

[chbrooking]

That would be excessive for a man of my caliber, but I know a few who would be a bargain at that price. They wouldn't require it of course. But I think the notion of double honor is lost on our culture. If you look at the salary of any profession requiring a minimum of 7 years education, and then double it. Where would you be?

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

I know this denomination and church appear to have their problems, but for a good Reformed pastor I don't think any salary is too high. I am grateful for all the pastors of my churches over the years. I know many of them live on meager income and give back a substantial portion of that - I would increase their salaries 10-fold if I could.

And $250,000 is reasonable by NYC standards, but not great. Sure, a crummy, tiny studio in the Village may be $1500 a month, but any decent lodging appropriate for a family will run at least $3500/month in Manhattan.

 

[ReformedChapin]

This is somewhat derailing the thread but Im just wondering how you can be a member of both UCC and ABC?

BTW Riverside Church is a pile of heresy...what the heck man with

Dr. Ann Holmes Redding, Preaching

On Sunday, April 19th, Ann Holmes Redding will be our guest preacher in morning worship. Dr. Redding, an Episcopal priest from Seattle, was recently defrocked by the Episcopal Church after announcing in 2007 that she is both Christian and Muslim. Dr. Redding formerly served as the Director of Faith Formation at St. Mark’s Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle.

 

[DMcFadden]

This is somewhat derailing the thread but Im just wondering how you can be a member of both UCC and ABC?

BTW Riverside Church is a pile of heresey...what the heck man with

Dr. Ann Holmes Redding, Preaching

On Sunday, April 19th, Ann Holmes Redding will be our guest preacher in morning worship. Dr. Redding, an Episcopal priest from Seattle, was recently defrocked by the Episcopal Church after announcing in 2007 that she is both Christian and Muslim. Dr. Redding formerly served as the Director of Faith Formation at St. Mark’s Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle.

In some Protestant communions, dual alignment between denominations is quite popular. The ABC, in particular, has a notable number of its 5,500 congregations that are dually aligned with a Black Baptist denomination or with the liberal UCC (a "kissing cousin" to the ABC in many ways).

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I know several smaller PC(USA) churches that are "dually-aligned" with ELCA, UCC, UMC, and/or other denominations.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I know several smaller PC(USA) churches that are "dually-aligned" with ELCA, UCC, UMC, and/or other denominations.

I've heard of churches such as PCUSA and ECLA having a partnership but not dual denomination membership.

 

[FenderPriest]

New York City is a very expensive place to live. My bet is that he won't live very high on the hog on that salary. Probably better than many, but not real high.

These are my initial thoughts. I actually could maybe understand $250k for being in NYC, but the additional aspects seemed a little much...

 

[Ex Nihilo]

It doesn't cost 11,500 a month rent. Average apartment is around 1,500-2,000.

Really? I planned to move to Boston or New York last year, and studios in New York were at least 1500 - most more than that. Boston seemed a bit less, but still a one room studio ran about 1200.

250,000/yr for NYC actually doesn't seem excessive to me. The additional housing allowance does seem a bit much though.

This is what I thought, too. I haven't lived in New York, but many, many people have told me it's much more expensive than Boston/Cambridge. And in Cambridge, a one-bedroom apartment runs from $1100 (studio) to $1400-$1800 (one-bedroom). And these are not large, luxurious places. It would be significantly more expensive for a family, obviously. I was also (not very seriously) looking at NYU Law School at one point, and it would have been more expensive than $1500/month just for me to live in Hoboken or Brooklyn, much less Manhattan.

With all that said, I would be more concerned about the (apparently excessive) perks if this were an otherwise orthodox church. As it is, it confirms what we know about the hypocrisy of the left.

 

[Marrow Man]

According to the benchmarks of the left, $250K is entry into the "rich" eschalon. This guy will pull down somewhere in the neighborhood of $500-600K once all the perks are factored it.

 

[Curt]

I'm just a country preacher. Yes, I do have more education than everyone in my congregation. I believe that my compensation should be enough for me to live in this economy and put a little aside for sanity (vacation), education, and old age (not retirement - thats another thread, or two).

That being said, it seems to me that the compensation at Riverside is probably not excessive. That is not to argue that it is an actual church. Nor does it imply that I would ever wish to candidate at such a place.

 

[DTK]

I never cease to be amazed at how Americans (and even folks in the church) love to discuss other folk's business, and then ask for others to pass judgment on something that doesn't really bear any weight on their own lives.

DTK

 

[puritanpilgrim]

And $250,000 is reasonable by NYC standards, but not great. Sure, a crummy, tiny studio in the Village may be $1500 a month, but any decent lodging appropriate for a family will run at least $3500/month in Manhattan.

What does $11,500 a month buy?

-----Added 4/23/2009 at 03:53:33 EST-----

I'm a free market capitalist. I don't think his salary is intrinsically any of our concern. I see some in his congregation are outraged over the amount and have even filed suit! Ok, well, since their tithes are paying his salary they DO have a vested interest in the compensation package (not that they should be suing - they should just leave the church - standard liberal fare: rather than bowing out in protest, they'd try to sue to impose their obviously minority position on the majority).

If his church wants to pay him that much, then fine.

I like free market too. Can't we still judge that a church is spending it's money poorly? Or perhaps that they have poor motives. This isn't the CEO of GE. This is a pastor.

 

[Montanablue]

I never cease to be amazed at how Americans (and even folks in the church) love to discuss other folk's business, and then ask for others to pass judgment on something that doesn't really bear any weight on their own lives.

DTK

You've just made a really good point.

 

[Archlute]

I never cease to be amazed at how Americans (and even folks in the church) love to discuss other folk's business, and then ask for others to pass judgment on something that doesn't really bear any weight on their own lives.

DTK

It is right that these things be discussed by any in the church, because it has bearing on the reputation of the kingdom, which affects us all. Ministers' salaries are not private business in as much as every facet of a minister's life should set an example to the flock, and yes, even the flock at large.