Baptist --> CT or CT --> Baptist:Switchover Time

[blhowes]

For those who have crossed the great baptism divide, either from CT to Baptist or Baptist to CT, how long did it take you to be convinced of the other theology from the time you first started questioning your beliefs?

What were the main obstacles you had to overcome?

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Never switched... even after 26 years. And even though some of my friends were dispensational and some of them were paedo I have never taken to either theology. I started out in a Confessional Baptist Church shortly after my conversion in 1981 while I was in the Navy. Been one ever since. And I am more convinced of the scriptural teaching that baptism is for confessing disciples {only} than ever before.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

Does CT stand for Covenant Theology? Reason I ask is that I am "Baptist" as it relates to the method and purpose of the ordinance of baptism, but also hold to Covenant Theology.

 

[blhowes]

Does CT stand for Covenant Theology? Reason I ask is that I am "Baptist" as it relates to the method and purpose of the ordinance of baptism, but also hold to Covenant Theology.

Yes. Though I'm sure there's much overlap, I guess I mean covenant theology the way Calvin, Witsius, etc. would have viewed it.

 

[Coram Deo]

I prefer the meaning of covenant theology the way Nehemiah Cox the 1600s "Reformed" Covenantalist Baptist who also help framed the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith.....


Michael

Yes. Though I'm sure there's much overlap, I guess I mean covenant theology the way Calvin, Witsius, etc. would have viewed it.

 

[Philip A]

It took me about 2 years to go from a Nehemiah Coxe reading, 1689 toting, Confessional "Reformed" Baptist to a simple Heidelberger. If I had to cite the biggest obstacles, the first was that I was already committed to a Reformed Baptist church as one of its founding members, serving as a deacon, and taking to the pulpit on occasion. Secondly, there was a lot of Americanized and Democratized social theory and philosophy driving my baptistic leanings that had to be undone, the kinds of things that aren't usually addressed in most books on the subject. Thirdly, there were other related subjects that needed to be addressed, most of them falling under the head of ecclesiology; the differences between Baptists and Reformed are broader than the oft cited issues of "baptism and church government". The most significant obstacle, though, was the fact that I was just simply ignorant of the other side, and too arrogant and belligerent to really understand what they were saying.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Yes. Though I'm sure there's much overlap, I guess I mean covenant theology the way Calvin, Witsius, etc. would have viewed it.

We covenantal Baptists believe in all of the Covenants. There may be some distinction in the New Covenant and what New means but we mostly follow John Owens understanding of New Covenant as he explains in his Hebrews Commentaries.

But that being said we Covenantal Baptists are Bi-Covenantal like most of our Presbyterian brothers. We do hold strongly to a Covenant of Works and the Covenant of Grace.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

So far as I know, Randy, I'm pretty sure Reformed paedobaptists believe that baptism is for confessing disciples as well.

Yep, maybe I didn't say that quite correctly. CT Baptists believe that baptism is only for confessing disciples where as CT Presbyterians believe it is to be placed upon those who are in Covenant families whether they are confessing faith or not.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

You specifically mean infants/children in Covenant families, right? (as opposed to non-believing adults)

I am not sure how to interpret this. Let me explain.

If a person becomes a Presbyterian, in some churches it is considered a sin if any child or adolesent is not baptized as a covenant member. Even if they do not confess a faith in Christ. Parents are in sin if one of their children do not have the covenant sign placed upon them. To what age that refers to I am not sure.

As a credo baptist I do believe children could and should be baptized if they are able to grasp the faith and exhibit it in their confession and practice.

BTW Josh give me your email addy again in a PM please. I want to send you something. Got some running around to do. Be back later.

 

[wsw201]

No problem, Brother. All I'm trying to draw out (unless there's a Reformed paedobaptist on here who would correct me) is that paedobaptists are not going to baptize, for example, an unbelieving, blatantly anti-Christian teenager, just because he's under the covenantal head of his recently confessed and repentant new-believing father. I know that I've been guilty of implying that Reformed paedobaptists don't believe in believer's baptism, when in fact, they do. And I know you don't believe that, but I just wanted to clarify for those who might be reading.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

I thinks its surprising how many refer to confessions as the lead bird in their flock. I have always seen confessions and creeds as aids and expositions of Scripture, agreed upon by a group of people. Of course, I assume we all agree with semper reformanda, always reforming. Those who framed our confessions of faith may have errored in some place.

I know I have taken some exceptions to things written in the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith and have made my opinions known to my church. At any rate, I don't think my belief in baptizing born again persons only is a demonstration of my ignorance of what others believe or my own arrogance. It is what I have come to believe by reading Scripture.

 

[reformedman]

Never did the switcharooni, but I was drawn (many years ago) into a fundamental baptist and did the switcharooni to a 5 pointer reformed-baptist. I have been a reformed-baptist for the past 10 years or so. Looking back at all the posted/audio/video/and live debates on the subject, and then looking forward down the horizon of as many years as God will bless me, I can't see anywhere in site or any semblance of a switch to PB from CB.


ever so slightly off the subject:
A credo-baptist was manning the book-sales table at a Presbyterian convention.
A PB was lurking around and suspiciously asked the baptist, "I heard that a credo-baptist was manning the table here, there aren't any books in opposition to Paedobaptism here is there?"

To which the baptist replied, "Er, I don't see any bibles here."

bu dum cheeee....

 

[MrMerlin777]

I had never really "visited" the issue. I was Baptist by rote. I knew the arguments very well from the Baptist side.

At one point I felt the need to dive into the issue from both sides to get a better understanding of the doctrines surrounding the issue of Baptism and finaly landed in the Paedobaptist camp. It took about 6 months to a year of having time set aside where I studied practically nothing else but the issue of Baptism.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

Never did the switcharooni, but I was drawn (many years ago) into a fundamental baptist and did the switcharooni to a 5 pointer reformed-baptist. I have been a reformed-baptist for the past 10 years or so. Looking back at all the posted/audio/video/and live debates on the subject, and then looking forward down the horizon of as many years as God will bless me, I can't see anywhere in site or any semblance of a switch to PB from CB.


ever so slightly off the subject:
A credo-baptist was manning the book-sales table at a Presbyterian convention.
A PB was lurking around and suspiciously asked the baptist, "I heard that a credo-baptist was manning the table here, there aren't any books in opposition to Paedobaptism here is there?"

To which the baptist replied, "Er, I don't see any bibles here."

bu dum cheeee....

Great way to keep humor in what is often a sensitive issue.

 

[blhowes]

Secondly, there was a lot of Americanized and Democratized social theory and philosophy driving my baptistic leanings that had to be undone, the kinds of things that aren't usually addressed in most books on the subject.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Can you expound/explain? Are you saying congregations have to much say (or power) in baptist churches?

 

[MW]

No problem, Brother. All I'm trying to draw out (unless there's a Reformed paedobaptist on here who would correct me) is that paedobaptists are not going to baptize, for example, an unbelieving, blatantly anti-Christian teenager, just because he's under the covenantal head of his recently confessed and repentant new-believing father. I know that I've been guilty of implying that Reformed paedobaptists don't believe in believer's baptism, when in fact, they do. And I know you don't believe that, but I just wanted to clarify for those who might be reading.

Well noted, Joshua. Baptism is only for confessing disciples. It is just that some disciples cannot confess for themselves, so their parents do it for them. If one properly understands the covenant of grace he cannot have any difficulty with the concept of another doing what he is unable to do.

 

[jbergsing]

My Baptist --> CT "conversion" took roughly 3 -4 months. I'll admit when I first learned about the doctrine of election, my first reaction was to reject it. But it didn't take long before I realized the truth beind it. Other than that, baptism was the big one for me. I thank God every day for allowing me to see the truth of covenant theology, especially the understanding of His complete sovereignty.

 

[tellville]

ever so slightly off the subject:
A credo-baptist was manning the book-sales table at a Presbyterian convention.
A PB was lurking around and suspiciously asked the baptist, "I heard that a credo-baptist was manning the table here, there aren't any books in opposition to Paedobaptism here is there?"

To which the baptist replied, "Er, I don't see any bibles here."

bu dum cheeee....

One of my favourite jokes!

 

[Augusta]

It took me 2-5 yrs but I should qualify that. I stayed in my credobaptist church for about 5 years after my conversion from arminian theology to reformed theology. I had enough to work out during those years. Once I took up the baptism issue in earnest it only took about 6 months to a year. Can't remember exactly. To me the issue came down to the sovereignty of God in salvation all over again. I had already been down that road once and it had only one answer.