An ugly truth All Christians should be aware of

[SmokingFlax]

Hello everyone.

It's been quite awhile since I've last posted and much has transpired with me since then. I hope all is well with everyone.

I know I've been a stranger lately (having moved back to NY state since I last posted) and I don't like to impose on others but I've just been getting eaten up with this HUGE issue that I stumbled across recently.

I can't help but feel greatly deceived regarding the subject of the Jewish religion since I have come across a website that contains the "traditions of the elders" of the Jewish religion ...a.k.a. The Talmud...

Can anyone here disabuse me of the notion that the REAL heart of anti-Christ is surely found in these despicable and blasphemous writings which are the heart of Judaism(?).

At present I am convinced that THE Antichrist will come from this soil/teaching...and that it has always been so (from the inception of the NT Church).

Here is a web-site that will surely open your eyes:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/tcontents.html

http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html#menu

I don't endorse everything that this woman has on her site (or her views) but I can't deny the validity of the Talmudic information that is contained there.

I now understand why Christ so vehemently renounced the Pharisees and called them "vipers", "serpents" & "the synagogue of Satan," etc.

I also understand (now) Luther's vitriol on the same subject.

Be aware that you will probably be a changed person after having been made aware of the contents of these writings (Talmud). They are truly mind boggling.

Can anyone here direct me to some Christian commentary regarding the Talmud?

I believe that John Lightfoot (1602-1675) (Erastian) wrote a commentary on the NT from a Talmudic perspective. Anything else out there (besides Luther)?

Please help...I've just had my mind blown open and I need to step back and get a clear perspective. I am just Dumbfounded here.

 

[turmeric]

What in particular upset you? These people are not Christians and are blinded in part...so what's new?

 

[SmokingFlax]

Sure, I don't expect any other religion to embrace the teachings of Christ, etc...

It's one thing to deny Christ...it is another thing to actively work towards destroying all that pertains to His Kingdom.

Some things that really bother me:

The fact that , according to public knowledge, (we) are supposed to believe that the Jews follow the OT for one thing.

But furthermore how 'bout:

human sacrifice

pedophilia

murder

rape

robbery

conjuring demons

etc. etc.

...all condoned by the perverted twistings contained therein.

Not to mention the many vile blasphemies recorded against Christ (as well as slanders against Mary).

Knowing that the Talmud prescribes that all idolators (above all Christians) require beheading according to their ruling.

Am I supposed to believe that all of these rabbis that are going about lately (like Daniel Lapin) aren't aware of the dozens of texts (in their "holy book") that require them to work towards the destruction of Christianity while they flatter the "religious right" with words of common cause and fellowship?

And for a final kicker: Most churches are teaching that "the Jews" are the chosen race and that supporting Israel is practically our first duty as Christians.

I should have stated that it is no easy overnight conclusion to see this for what it is :I have been aware of some of this since at least 2001...it's only been recently that I decided to look into some of the things I'd heard previously (which I thought were just the ravings of far right kooks).

There is much that could be said regarding the implications of this...but I have to go.

 

[turmeric]

A casual google of Carol A. Valentine reveals, to me at least, that her views are questionable at best. She's not an unbiased source. A lot of what she criticizes is actually in the OT. We know that the Jews in the period before the Exile did indeed sacrifice their children to the gods of Caanan(sic), one of the reasons for the Exile. I found her mention of pedophilia, but can't find the actual tractate she references. I'm highly skeptical of this. I've met many actua Jews, who are woefully ignorant of their Scriptures, but who don't believe in child sacrifice or restricting the freedom of Christians. I've actually had chances to share the Gospel with them. Please be careful, sir.

In Christ

 

[KMK]

And for a final kicker: Most churches are teaching that "the Jews" are the chosen race and that supporting Israel is practically our first duty as Christians.

This is true. Most Christians in America are not aware of, or turn a blind eye to clear teaching in the Bible about how Jesus looked upon the Jewish Religion or 'Judaism'. The problem is made worse by the fact that the word 'Jew' has different meanings to different people. If 'Jew' refers to 'Judaism'
then the Bible teaches that Jesus was an enemy of the Jews. If 'Jew' refers to people who claim ancestry to Jacob, then Jesus himself was a 'Jew'. If 'Jew' refers to people who live in Judea, then Jesus was a 'Jew'. So when preachers teach that 'the Jews' are the chosen race, are they teaching that...

1. anyone who is a direct ancestor of Jacob is chosen?
2. anyone who has or does live in Judea is chosen?
3. anyone who practices 'Judaism' is chosen?

If they are teaching number 1 then they might have some scripture to back that up, but the problem is that many assume number 3 for which there would be absolutely no scriptural evidence.

That is why I hate the term 'Judeo-Christian'. There is no such thing unless you are talking about Christians who happen, by chance, to be related to Jacob, or who happen, by chance, to live in Judea. But Christianity and Judaism are at enmity with each other.

A pastor friend of mine just had two people leave his church because he refused to pray for Jerusalem. (Would they have left if he refused to pray for Moscow?)

 

[Chris]

Do any of you guys ever watch John Hagee?

If he hadn't delved so deep into health-and-wealth, I probably would never have stepped back from his hyper-Dispensational teachings (I used to watch him on sundays while dressing for church).

He basically teaches now that a Jew can be saved by keeping the Torah.

 

[Blueridge Believer]

Do any of you guys ever watch John Hagee?

If he hadn't delved so deep into health-and-wealth, I probably would never have stepped back from his hyper-Dispensational teachings (I used to watch him on sundays while dressing for church).

He basically teaches now that a Jew can be saved by keeping the Torah.

it's called dual covenant theology. This man is a heretic 1rst class.

 

[puritan lad]

How about this goodie from Hagee?

“We support Israel because all other nations were created by an act of men, but Israel was created by an act of God.” (From Supporting Israel)

On another note, didn't Hagee teach some diet technique or write a book on dieting? My neighbor is a huge Hagee fan. I remember telling her that, if I was to take diet advice from a preacher, John Hagee would be my last choice. "John Hagee" and "Health" don't belong in the same sentence.

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

Hagge is one of the madmen who the Israeli government shrewdly use to lobby the "evangelical" support and tie America down in unconditional alliance with the pagan state of Israel.

I was enraged when channel surfing to discover Hagee's banquet/telethon called "A Night to Honor Isreal" from the rafters of his congregation the Stars and Stripes and Star of David hung side by side as national anthems were sung as though they were hymns. Unadulterated idolatry.

I love my country dearly, that is why I hate to see her misused and manipulated by this power hungry scoundrel and the zionist government that has milked a culture of victimization longer and more effectively than any other people used to further the liberal political agenda, zionism is a nasty brand of social secularism combined with state worshipping far far right facism.

But ask me how I really feel.

Only in the middle east could the criminal history of Israel look ambiguous or less corrupt than her neighbors, she is lucky for such geography.

All the same I do not consider Israel an ally of the United States but a blood sucking parasite, an ungrateful bully that uses our money and military to recklessly domineer, in the name of their own preservation they have murdered many an American service men yet OUR politicians sweep it away because of the two most asinine lobbies in this country are the "Jews" and "Dispensational Evangelicals".

 

[Blueridge Believer]

Hagge is one of the madmen who the Israeli government shrewdly use to lobby the "evangelical" support and tie America down in unconditional alliance with the pagan state of Israel.

I was enraged when channel surfing to discover Hagee's banquet/telethon called "A Night to Honor Isreal" from the rafters of his congregation the Stars and Stripes and Star of David hung side by side as national anthems were sung as though they were hymns. Unadulterated idolatry.

I love my country dearly, that is why I hate to see her misused and manipulated by this power hungry scoundrel and the zionist government that has milked a culture of victimization longer and more effectively than any other people used to further the liberal political agenda, zionism is a nasty brand of social secularism combined with state worshipping far far right facism.

But ask me how I really feel.

Only in the middle east could the criminal history of Israel look ambiguous or less corrupt than her neighbors, she is lucky for such geography.

All the same I do not consider Israel an ally of the United States but a blood sucking parasite, an ungrateful bully that uses our money and military to recklessly domineer, in the name of their own preservation they have murdered many an American service men yet OUR politicians sweep it away because of the two most asinine lobbies in this country are the "Jews" and "Dispensational Evangelicals".

 

[KMK]

Hagge is one of the madmen who the Israeli government shrewdly use to lobby the "evangelical" support and tie America down in unconditional alliance with the pagan state of Israel.

I was enraged when channel surfing to discover Hagee's banquet/telethon called "A Night to Honor Isreal" from the rafters of his congregation the Stars and Stripes and Star of David hung side by side as national anthems were sung as though they were hymns. Unadulterated idolatry.

I love my country dearly, that is why I hate to see her misused and manipulated by this power hungry scoundrel and the zionist government that has milked a culture of victimization longer and more effectively than any other people used to further the liberal political agenda, zionism is a nasty brand of social secularism combined with state worshipping far far right facism.

But ask me how I really feel.

Only in the middle east could the criminal history of Israel look ambiguous or less corrupt than her neighbors, she is lucky for such geography.

All the same I do not consider Israel an ally of the United States but a blood sucking parasite, an ungrateful bully that uses our money and military to recklessly domineer, in the name of their own preservation they have murdered many an American service men yet OUR politicians sweep it away because of the two most asinine lobbies in this country are the "Jews" and "Dispensational Evangelicals".

I'm sorry to say that I don't see you lasting too long in Hollywood.

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

I'm sorry to say that I don't see you lasting too long in Hollywood.

Well, I work with many Jews, but really they're agnostics. On a set it is business and we all conduct ourselves in a similar manner, people know I'm Southern and conservative, not Republican, but conservative.
They lament that fact because most of them like me .

If there are any Israeli Christians on this board I am not angry with you but with the ignorance in my own land and the manipulation in yours.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Folks,
I'm going to close this thread. I don't think any lines were crossed, neither by the person starting the thread, nor by any of the parties who chimed in. But I want to keep it from going anywhere bad.

Here's my main concern: I do not know whether any of the links posted are connected to antisemitism or antizionism, I won't assume that either way. But I know this--way too much of that stuff IS connected to extreme forms of identity politics.

The bottom line is that there is plenty of Christ-hating in the world, always has been and always will be. Satan has been going after the Seed of Promise with a vengeance since the protoeuangelion given in the Garden.

Most false-religionists know about as much of their scripture as nominal Christians know about theirs. And ignorance among those who profess the wrong religion, or the true religion falsely, leads very simply to mob behavior--parking your brain at the scene, and blindly going along with the crowd. The real devils are the clever manipulators who shepherd things along until they lose control.

Only one Person never loses control of the situation. That Person is King Jesus. The kings and mighty men of the earth, who even now take counsel against the Lord and his Messiah--he who sits in the heavens still laughs at them, and mocks them in derision. He still preaches to them the gospel: "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you perish in your way; for his wrath will soon be kindled."

Even now there are many different kinds of anti-Christs. Jesus has many, many foes, and every one of them has a date with either conversion or destruction. "Fear not, O little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom" (Lk. 12:32).